Picture yourself in a boat on a river, With tangerine trees and marmalade skies Somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly, A girl with kaleidoscope eyes. Cellophane flowers of yellow and green, Towering over your head. Look for the girl with the sun in her eyes, And she's gone.
I have no clue what's happening in the markets right now. A little media acid does wonders.
I have been checking in daily but just don't have a comment.
my last comment stands. buy gold if and when it dips and get your money out of us dollars and offshore.
now
i am not a crazy person. i knew it for 10 years but now i think it is evident the walls are closing in . so.. get out of your comfort zone and go do the unthinkable
vb
ps - cp.. i am very happy in my new job. I couldn't have found a better place to hang my hat. but, no gravy train here. all blood and sweat
i was looking to buy a foreclosure but the default swamp is growing like the spill in the gulf.
My job is great but it depends on vacationers abroad continuning to travel to the USA. So far they are coming in but we have to discount the villas (not able to get rack rate).
easy to find 50.00 square foot here and 80.00 for a 5 bedroom villa per night
Asian Stocks Rise to Four-Week High, Led by Commodity Companies
By Anna Kitanaka and Masaki Kondo
June 16 (Bloomberg) -- Asian stocks rose to a four-week high after a report showing growth in New York manufacturing boosted confidence that a recovery in world’s biggest economy will increase corporate earnings.
Toyota Motor Corp., a carmaker that gets about 28 percent of its sales from North America, gained 1.4 percent in Tokyo. BHP Billiton Ltd., the world’s biggest mining company, climbed 1.7 percent in Sydney after commodity prices advanced. Samsung Electronics Co., Asia’s largest chipmaker, rose 1.9 percent in Seoul. Nintendo Co. jumped 4.6 percent in Osaka, Japan, after the company introduced a new handheld video-game player.
The MSCI Asia Pacific Index climbed 1 percent to 115.59 as of 10:12 a.m. in Tokyo, rising for a fifth day in its longest winning streak since April 7. The index has lost 4.2 percent this year on concern that Greece and other European countries will struggle to curb their budget deficits and repay debt.
“We are bullish on the U.S. economy,” said Naoki Fujiwara, a fund manager in Tokyo at Shinkin Asset Management Co., which oversees about $6 billion. “The continuing improvement in earnings will drive down valuations even further, so there is little concern that the market will decline.”
BTW, I don't comprehend reasons flying around for gold outperforming in a deflationary environment. If we were to go into another deep recession, I'm thinking more in terms of a 2008 repeat as far as gold is concerned. So yea, buy gold maybe around $800-$850?
The sad truth is that in today's backasswards world...
Cash *IS* debt!
My guess is when a dollar panic finally does occur, there will be so many trying to escape that any other reasonable hiding place gets run up to the moon. Exceptions will be all the other places that fell before the dollar, ie Euro and Pound, maybe Yen.
cheapy - Does your list include natural resources? If nobody wants cash, I'd call that runaway inflation and so nearly everything would spike including treasury rates.
I think I am going to plan to buy a place mid-late 2011. We should be at the depths of the 2nd leg of the depression or into the dollar crisis by then, depending on whether they try to stimulate/bailout/print like crazy again or not, and the mortgage rate reset and following foreclosure boom should be at its worst, especially with stimulus ending and tax hikes taking effect at end of 2010 after the election.
I think the cue/clue will be that the foreclosure investors/buyers from 2008 and 2009 will be throwing in the towel when the economy worsens and rates rise or dollar crisis and hyperinflation from its collapse start hitting home.
Do you think they will ALLOW a repeat of 2008 or worse? I don't think they will. If gold goes sub $1000 I will put every penny I own (except 5 yrs living money) into real metal and turn off the screens.
2nd- I got sucked into watching an episode of "Addiction" last night. What say you... 30ish women 300lbs+ and they said she was drinking a gallon of vodka/day. My paramedic background say's she would be dead in 3 days based on metabolic rates. Am I wrong?
Nobody will be able to afford to borrow to buy things, even as the money is becoming worthless.
I say own things China doesn't have and want or needs at that point. Oil and oil related (but not the "majors" that China can't easily buy) seem to me to be the things to buy when the SHTF. Oil may have been driven to $10 back in 98, but look how high it went afterwards. China is now the worlds largest producer and consumer of cars, so it follows that their oil demand will continue to rise.
thanks for reminding me, i was loaded up on gold and when the market crashed, and, I remember watching gold crash too
So, what are the trades for Today to prepare for deflationtary period followed by usd collaspe and then run a way inflation (or inflation before usd collaspe)
cheapy - No, I don't anticipate a repeat of 2008 but that doesn't mean it cannot happen. If I were anticipating a repeat, I'd probably be mostly in cash.
I think it's more likely they'll keep pumping until inflation gets a foot in the door, from there may be a rapid overshoot causing a rush into anything not fiat.
Damn Cheapy...My problem with that is are you going to shave off slivers of gold to pay for things. I'm sorry, but I'm being serious. Or will you take physical and try to sell it for cash?
Please don't make fun of me :))))
BTW everyone...Even MSNBC talking heads are slamming Obama...THAT'S saying something.
I remember when my parents built a second home and the rate was 19%. I'm assuming everyone is talking about something far greater than that. They did refinnance 5 years later for 9%.
You take the gold or silver and sell it for whatever color confetti will buy the things you need.
The only advantage of it is that it can't be "printed" by the central banks, so is immune from debasement. If they allow everyone to deleverage like in 2008 again, it reduces the dollars in existence dramatically, and so everything collapses in dollar terms. But can they afford to see all the banks go bust as housing prices drop another 30%? That's what happens if they stop printing and allow/encourage the deleveraging. Unemployment would be at Great Depression levels, and to not print to feed the entitlement system would force the Federal and State and Municipal governments to actually get rid of all their people and live within their tax revenues.
Just thinking aloud. My guess would be DOW 6000 or less. Gold would get hit, price wise, but would rapidly recover when they were forced to turn the presses back on.
I think they see it as that the mistakes they made were not putting their foot down to stop the bubbles being blown (ie global imbalances) in the first place, and secondly allowing the collapse. If they had wanted to allow the collapse to continue and have "real money" with "real value", they wouldn't have gone begging congress for the first trillion bailout fund. I therefore see they would NOT allow another collapse like it to occur in the first place if they could avoid it, even if it meant gold rising 30-50% as collateral damage.
A gallon of vodka a day? Well, my understanding is that it takes years of heavy drinking for cirrhosis to occur. Once it does, of course, the downward spiral tends to be quick. Ascites, portal hypertension, hepatic encephalopathy.
Went and looked at Fosback's Stock Market Logic, and he says high avg yield is the best predictor of good future return, and when it gets to 6% or above your odds get high for a 15%+ gain the next year. (from pg 13 1995 edition)
If we gap up again tomorrow, I'll be looking to put on a few shorts.
In the meantime, I'm wondering if even Dave Landry is wondering WTF is going on- he's been referring to recent action as 'only a pullback' within a primary downtrend for several days now...
cheapy - Agreed, in the case the dollar becomes the preferred shelter as it was in 2008, buy what China is going to need just as soon as prices stop crashing (using your cash).
In the case of a crashing dollar, I'm not so sure nobody would be able to afford things, remember the 70's? The dynamics are slightly different now, China is the 2nd largest global economy and they own lots of dollars(we've been sending them greenbacks in trade for finished goods for a couple of decades now). So, if China decides they don't want their dollars anymore then voila, dollar crashes! The nice part about that situation is that finished goods will flow in the opposite direction. This will be good for US employment.
Take the current situation in Europe for example, the flow of Chinese goods to Europe has slowed dramatically and more goods have been flowing from Europe to China. Maybe so much so, Europeans will actually be able to repay some debt?
I think we have to think in terms of trade imbalances, and consider the trends of the past couple decades and the forces that made those imbalances possible.
I'm envisioning this as a swinging pendulum. The pendulum, has swung so far out, now it's time for a reversal. There are a couple of things that will need to happen, one of which is an end to or relaxation of, Asian currency pegs.
I'm pretty confident it will happen, whether or not there are any volunteers. I also believe there are currently efforts to try and expedite the process, in the form of trade tariffs. Two examples would be the minerals export tax as proposed by Australia, the second the pipe import tax being proposed in the US.
I think these are instruments being used to convince Asia to relax their currency pegs(which are a form of trade tariff).
vb - Assuming you are anticipating a repeat of 2008 or possibly worse, in my view, today's anti-deflationary trade would be to go to cash and perhaps short equities. In 2008, gold outperformed equities by a wide margin, but it didn't outperform the U$D. There may have been other things that outperformed the U$D, but I cannot identify any at the moment...
Anyway, the upper trend line of S&P is now 1250, no telling if we ever see that value again any time soon but if we do, I'll definitely be going short (I think I've learned my "lesson").
IMO China will take those dollars and spread them between buying resources or resource companies with assets they can use and defend, LENDING the dollars to anyone around the world willing to borrow them, and discreetly buying precious metals as much as are available on the markets in any deleveraging panio. I don't think they will spend more than a token amount buying US made good or services.
ps: i think the Chinese have BEEN quietly TRYING to do that already, and have so many dollars and so many more coming in that its hard to make any progress unloading them...
In summary it all points to a melt up into inflation that is pretended not to exist, and instead relabeled as "growth". The only problem is it will appear as growth with no jobs, and they will have to explain that as improved "productivity".
Cheapy, I think world governments realize the possibility (or I should say, probability) that China intends on snapping up resources using their greenbacks. I also think these governments are prepared to block those efforts(via trade tariffs) if China doesn't relax their currency peg. Also, if China were to unload greenbacks in trade for resources, there would be a corresponding effect on the dollar?
So any way you look at it, resources are the ticket once the panic selling is done.
cheapy - I don't see much inflation to be honest. With reduced demand associated with weak jobs markets and slow growth, it's really hard to have inflation. I think the odds of a 90's style Japanese deflation is pretty high.
China leading indicator rises the most in 14 mths: Conference Board (Agencies) Updated: 2010-06-16 09:54
A leading indicator for China jumped by the most in 14 months, adding to signs that the world's third-biggest economy is maintaining momentum as Europe's debt crisis threatens to undermine the global recovery.
The measure gained 1.7 percent to 147.1 in April, compared with a revised 1.2 percent increase in March, The Conference Board said on its website Tuesday.
"China is performing among the best of any economy around the world," Bill Adams, resident economist for the New York- based research organization, said in Beijing on Tuesday.
China eyeing major Greek investments: report (Agencies) Updated: 2010-06-15 15:11
China is eyeing investments valued at several billion euros in Greek shipping, logistics and airport projects, as the European nation battles to slash its massive debt, a report said Tuesday.
The news came as Moody's downgraded Greek debt on Monday night by four notches to junk. The debt is already rated junk by other agencies. Athens rejected the move and said it had taken significant steps to balance its books.
The investment deals are due to be signed on Tuesday during a visit to Athens by Chinese Vice-Premier Zhang Dejiang, the Financial Times reported, citing an unnamed Greek government official.
They are not going to make it easy on us. In a typical create the most pain as possible fashion the dang market is going to squeeze all us shorts out and THEN rollover.
Speaking of rollover, I still think the market has the potential to resume its recent slide from its current overbought condition.
It's a one day at a time thing though. Hopefully, it'll do something other than trade in a range like it has been lately.
I'm still seeing quite a few setups on the short side. Retail and Oil Service seem to be providing the best looking opportunities.
I'm fielding a lot of questions this week on a variety of topics---stop placement, discretion, determining overbought/oversold etc.... I cover this in Thursday's chart show.
Russia - The nuke was on land though, wasn't it? I don't know if the composition of the gulf stratum would even make it an option but the dynamics may be completely different and perhaps considerably more risky?
Hi guys, The video of the russian nuking was on land, an NG well.
It doesn't have to be a nuke, any explosion large enough to collapse the well casing will work.
It IS typical of us though, isn't it? The first thing we think of is the biggest overkill possible. the trouble is, you still have to dig a parallel hole to intersect the casing, and if you do that (like they are now) then there are other ways of plugging the damned thing.
Yea, I can think of a few holes that debatably should be plugged. I think it's about time to go hang out with the ducks...
PAL has no qualms about quickly moving down the scale... Manipulation? I should do some DD and try to discover their level of importance to the market (which I don't think is going away).
2nd- I can only let you know what MOG said about it. First, they won't do it. The relief well WILL work, eventually. If the nuke didn't work it could fracture the ocean floor instead of sealing the well. That would be the worse possible outcome.
Good call on work! I'm leaving early....otherwise I'd fall asleep watching this tape :)
IMO it would turn the gulf into the bikini islands with an added widely dispersed radioactive oil slick. The shockwave alone would kill all kinds of sealife, not to mention dispersing oil far and wide. Not to mention open the door for BP to claim any resulting liability was no longer their fault.
This idea is like using a jackhammer to drive a thumbtack.
The tone at CC is always so condescending, I'm certain it's been tough following Bill's "winning" strategies. What's really irritating to me is his tendency to cherry pick through his daily conflicting remarks. I especially appreciated Bev's recognition of the CC censorship factor mentioned at the close of her post, so right on.
Re: Just VENTING.... Max Frustration newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4449 comments) on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 11:56 #64617 (in reply to #64587) Bev- I hear you. Playing a game where 'max frustration' is a common refrain probably isn't good for anyone's mental health.
I've been out of the game, more or less, for a few weeks now. It feels good enough that I may stay away much longer.
cp hashing this over myself. (buy or sell or pack for panama)
smart trends says we are going up - brinker says this too.
long term we know what is coming so at some point, go to cash and rebuy gold on the dip.? is that the consensus here/
oh, here is a condo if you want to buy - look at what it sold for previously. there are hundreds and hundreds and even more pre foreclosures where people haven't paid for over a year.
shark, i read bp is spraying dispersents over the mobile bay at night while people are sleeping. it is unreal - funny my parents have gotten very senile since the spill. (major decline in their memory)- of course the stress and worry for the elderly is enough to push one to the edge. they are worried about a hurricane hitting on top of the spill since they live on the water. now to think they are being sprayed at night...
Re: Just VENTING.... Max Frustration Submitted by Bev (641 comments) on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 12:08 #64619 (in reply to #64617) You did the right thing 2nd. I will do the same at the close today.
Re: Just VENTING.... Max Frustration newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4450 comments) on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 12:34 #64621 (in reply to #64619) Maybe if we all stop playing, they'll be stuck with black boxes competing against each other, and we can watch from the sidelines rooting for our favorite algo. Much more fun. Let the casino rot.
vb - I thought you were headed for Spain? The condo in your post is only 40 min from Coco beach, looks like a reasonable place for a retiree or widower.
If the federal government were to offer early retirement packages for civil servants in the DC area (which is quite possible) there might be waves of interest. Wonder when/if we'll begin hearing of federal furloughs?
"Federal furloughs
March 1st, 2010 | Agencies Transportation |
(Updated below) After years of a stagnant economy, furloughs are nothing new to private-sector workers — including newspaper reporters! — and even many state and local employees. But now they’re affecting the federal government.
It’s not because of the economy, though. The Senate needed to pass legislation last week to extend federal highway and transit programs — and the legislation was blocked by Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., who said he objected to the bill because it wasn’t deficit-neutral. The legislation stalled.
The result? The Transportation Department has to furlough nearly 2,000 employees, starting today, and ending… whenever the bill gets passed."
Sorry for this late post re. yday's market (was on the road driving), but Cramer had some good (and honest comments) re. the show we're trying to play...
TOF- I like watching those type of stocks to see how they react also. I'm going to listen to the FDX call tonight. I saw a news report on my trading screen talking about next years costs being higher as they going to increase their air fleet.
JPM @ 38.40. OK, I guess I should have waited until it closed above the 20 and FINREG, but by then I'm thinking it will be too late one way or the other.
Past couple days I've noticed the same phenomenon we noted a couple months back, occasionally my posts don't show up for several minutes.
Probably sloppy software engineering, those guys have some of the very best compilers and structured languages in history but still manage to screw them up with spaghetti code...
vb - I'll put it this way, if you happen to see gold prices approaching their low of 2008 while the market is selling off in a panic, I think not buying there would be a mistake.
Of course I wish I'd kept mine, but I traded into stocks instead and I can't say I'm disappointed but having kept gold would have been nearly as good.
I suppose that could be distilled into a reason to move from stocks into gold or cash right now and wait for a crash to move back into stocks if a crash were your anticipation. The risk of moving to cash is there may not be a crash, except for the U$D, gold probably won't outperform the market if economic recovery were to transpire but it also wouldn't crash as much as equities if the opposite were the case.
I think I said that right... LOL, or at least the way I envision things might work.
No doubt there are differing opinions, but how many of them were anticipating gold being thrown out with the bathwater in 2008? After all who was selling gold and why on earth would they be selling at such a time when the global economy was falling off a cliff? If you say there were margin calls then I ask who the heck could afford to carry gold(no dividend, storage fees, expensive to trade, etc...) on margin in the first place? Gold was advertised as a safety play and that simply wasn't the case in comparison with U$D.
What, U$D better than gold? That's what I took away from the 2008 experience....
I was typing a post in and had typed a paragraph or 2 in, and was adding some more words to it when I saw the screen sort of flash and it came back to an empty post a comment screen. Its very disheartening when it happens.
I had a good day if you want to look at it that way, collecting a toll of over $4000 in the past 3 days putting less than $100k into RBY. I was the one buying the bottoms, and as usual did well at that, but sold too early again, leaving $3000 profit on the table.
Anyone ever try backtesting or learning to trade better using Thinkorswim's On Demand? It allows you to pick a day, time and ticker and replay the action, entering orders in a play money mode. Maybe I should be spending my hours trying it with highly liquid issues, and trying to find a few cash cows and consistent methods to extract same.
This is all a casino. Even the real money is pretend, but nobody realizes it.
Cheapy- I've messed around with it, and it's pretty cool. Not much help to me though as my trades are longer term. I did find I could scalp well with it though.
happy tuesday !
ReplyDeleteI have been checking in daily but just don't have a comment.
my last comment stands. buy gold if and when it dips and get your money out of us dollars and offshore.
now
i am not a crazy person. i knew it for 10 years but now i think it is evident the walls are closing in . so.. get out of your comfort zone and go do the unthinkable
vb
ps - cp.. i am very happy in my new job. I couldn't have found a better place to hang my hat. but, no gravy train here. all blood and sweat
:)
What will be the replacement name for BP; GP (Government Petroleum)?
ReplyDeleteWow..spent about an hour scanning stories, blogs, etc. NOBODY is bullish. Farce, manipulated, etc...
ReplyDeleteWell, at least for the short run I don't have to worry about over confidence.
CP- It's GOOP...Government Operations and Oversight Program.
ReplyDeleteVB- Serious question. Are you concerned about losing your job and more pain for the FLA RE market?
ReplyDeletehi mark
ReplyDeletei was looking to buy a foreclosure but the default swamp is growing like the spill in the gulf.
My job is great but it depends on vacationers abroad continuning to travel to the USA. So far they are coming in but we have to discount the villas (not able to get rack rate).
easy to find 50.00 square foot here and 80.00 for a 5 bedroom villa per night
I say global deflation
Asian Stocks Rise to Four-Week High, Led by Commodity Companies
ReplyDeleteBy Anna Kitanaka and Masaki Kondo
June 16 (Bloomberg) -- Asian stocks rose to a four-week high after a report showing growth in New York manufacturing boosted confidence that a recovery in world’s biggest economy will increase corporate earnings.
Toyota Motor Corp., a carmaker that gets about 28 percent of its sales from North America, gained 1.4 percent in Tokyo. BHP Billiton Ltd., the world’s biggest mining company, climbed 1.7 percent in Sydney after commodity prices advanced. Samsung Electronics Co., Asia’s largest chipmaker, rose 1.9 percent in Seoul. Nintendo Co. jumped 4.6 percent in Osaka, Japan, after the company introduced a new handheld video-game player.
The MSCI Asia Pacific Index climbed 1 percent to 115.59 as of 10:12 a.m. in Tokyo, rising for a fifth day in its longest winning streak since April 7. The index has lost 4.2 percent this year on concern that Greece and other European countries will struggle to curb their budget deficits and repay debt.
“We are bullish on the U.S. economy,” said Naoki Fujiwara, a fund manager in Tokyo at Shinkin Asset Management Co., which oversees about $6 billion. “The continuing improvement in earnings will drive down valuations even further, so there is little concern that the market will decline.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a4VpVa.KTsDo&pos=2
Hi vb, thanks for the valuable update! Take care.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I don't comprehend reasons flying around for gold outperforming in a deflationary environment. If we were to go into another deep recession, I'm thinking more in terms of a 2008 repeat as far as gold is concerned. So yea, buy gold maybe around $800-$850?
cp,
ReplyDeleteThe sad truth is that in today's backasswards world...
Cash *IS* debt!
My guess is when a dollar panic finally does occur, there will be so many trying to escape that any other reasonable hiding place gets run up to the moon. Exceptions will be all the other places that fell before the dollar, ie Euro and Pound, maybe Yen.
cheapy - Does your list include natural resources? If nobody wants cash, I'd call that runaway inflation and so nearly everything would spike including treasury rates.
ReplyDeleteThere's a scenario I can sink my teeth into.
vb,
ReplyDeleteI think I am going to plan to buy a place mid-late 2011. We should be at the depths of the 2nd leg of the depression or into the dollar crisis by then, depending on whether they try to stimulate/bailout/print like crazy again or not, and the mortgage rate reset and following foreclosure boom should be at its worst, especially with stimulus ending and tax hikes taking effect at end of 2010 after the election.
I think the cue/clue will be that the foreclosure investors/buyers from 2008 and 2009 will be throwing in the towel when the economy worsens and rates rise or dollar crisis and hyperinflation from its collapse start hitting home.
I hope I'm very wrong.
cp,
ReplyDeleteDo you think they will ALLOW a repeat of 2008 or worse? I don't think they will. If gold goes sub $1000 I will put every penny I own (except 5 yrs living money) into real metal and turn off the screens.
2nd- I got sucked into watching an episode of "Addiction" last night. What say you... 30ish women 300lbs+ and they said she was drinking a gallon of vodka/day. My paramedic background say's she would be dead in 3 days based on metabolic rates. Am I wrong?
ReplyDeletecp,
ReplyDeleteNobody will be able to afford to borrow to buy things, even as the money is becoming worthless.
I say own things China doesn't have and want or needs at that point. Oil and oil related (but not the "majors" that China can't easily buy) seem to me to be the things to buy when the SHTF. Oil may have been driven to $10 back in 98, but look how high it went afterwards. China is now the worlds largest producer and consumer of cars, so it follows that their oil demand will continue to rise.
cp
ReplyDeletethanks for reminding me, i was loaded up on gold and when the market crashed, and, I remember watching gold crash too
So, what are the trades for Today to prepare for deflationtary period followed by usd collaspe and then run a way inflation (or inflation before usd collaspe)
cheapy - No, I don't anticipate a repeat of 2008 but that doesn't mean it cannot happen. If I were anticipating a repeat, I'd probably be mostly in cash.
ReplyDeleteI think it's more likely they'll keep pumping until inflation gets a foot in the door, from there may be a rapid overshoot causing a rush into anything not fiat.
Damn Cheapy...My problem with that is are you going to shave off slivers of gold to pay for things. I'm sorry, but I'm being serious. Or will you take physical and try to sell it for cash?
ReplyDeletePlease don't make fun of me :))))
BTW everyone...Even MSNBC talking heads are slamming Obama...THAT'S saying something.
Hyperinflation...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.fgmr.com/no-improvement-in-the-hyperinflationary-outlook.html
I remember when my parents built a second home and the rate was 19%. I'm assuming everyone is talking about something far greater than that. They did refinnance 5 years later for 9%.
ReplyDeletecp,
ReplyDeleteYou take the gold or silver and sell it for whatever color confetti will buy the things you need.
The only advantage of it is that it can't be "printed" by the central banks, so is immune from debasement. If they allow everyone to deleverage like in 2008 again, it reduces the dollars in existence dramatically, and so everything collapses in dollar terms. But can they afford to see all the banks go bust as housing prices drop another 30%? That's what happens if they stop printing and allow/encourage the deleveraging. Unemployment would be at Great Depression levels, and to not print to feed the entitlement system would force the Federal and State and Municipal governments to actually get rid of all their people and live within their tax revenues.
Just thinking aloud. My guess would be DOW 6000 or less. Gold would get hit, price wise, but would rapidly recover when they were forced to turn the presses back on.
I think they see it as that the mistakes they made were not putting their foot down to stop the bubbles being blown (ie global imbalances) in the first place, and secondly allowing the collapse. If they had wanted to allow the collapse to continue and have "real money" with "real value", they wouldn't have gone begging congress for the first trillion bailout fund. I therefore see they would NOT allow another collapse like it to occur in the first place if they could avoid it, even if it meant gold rising 30-50% as collateral damage.
ReplyDeleteWhere would the DOW or SP have to be to make the average yield on it 5%?
ReplyDeleteWhere would the DOW or SP have to be to give it an overall PE ratio of 6?
Those are normal for bear market lows. It wouldn't make sense to be in a depression and not have it cause a bear market, IMO.
A gallon of vodka a day? Well, my understanding is that it takes years of heavy drinking for cirrhosis to occur. Once it does, of course, the downward spiral tends to be quick. Ascites, portal hypertension, hepatic encephalopathy.
ReplyDeleteWent and looked at Fosback's Stock Market Logic, and he says high avg yield is the best predictor of good future return, and when it gets to 6% or above your odds get high for a 15%+ gain the next year. (from pg 13 1995 edition)
ReplyDeleteSP500 avg yield is 2.4% as of end of may
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&tkr=GLW:US&sid=a7lsUfRKMZIM
If we gap up again tomorrow, I'll be looking to put on a few shorts.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, I'm wondering if even Dave Landry is wondering WTF is going on- he's been referring to recent action as 'only a pullback' within a primary downtrend for several days now...
cheapy - Agreed, in the case the dollar becomes the preferred shelter as it was in 2008, buy what China is going to need just as soon as prices stop crashing (using your cash).
ReplyDeleteIn the case of a crashing dollar, I'm not so sure nobody would be able to afford things, remember the 70's? The dynamics are slightly different now, China is the 2nd largest global economy and they own lots of dollars(we've been sending them greenbacks in trade for finished goods for a couple of decades now). So, if China decides they don't want their dollars anymore then voila, dollar crashes! The nice part about that situation is that finished goods will flow in the opposite direction. This will be good for US employment.
Take the current situation in Europe for example, the flow of Chinese goods to Europe has slowed dramatically and more goods have been flowing from Europe to China. Maybe so much so, Europeans will actually be able to repay some debt?
I think we have to think in terms of trade imbalances, and consider the trends of the past couple decades and the forces that made those imbalances possible.
I'm envisioning this as a swinging pendulum. The pendulum, has swung so far out, now it's time for a reversal. There are a couple of things that will need to happen, one of which is an end to or relaxation of, Asian currency pegs.
I'm pretty confident it will happen, whether or not there are any volunteers. I also believe there are currently efforts to try and expedite the process, in the form of trade tariffs. Two examples would be the minerals export tax as proposed by Australia, the second the pipe import tax being proposed in the US.
I think these are instruments being used to convince Asia to relax their currency pegs(which are a form of trade tariff).
vb - Assuming you are anticipating a repeat of 2008 or possibly worse, in my view, today's anti-deflationary trade would be to go to cash and perhaps short equities. In 2008, gold outperformed equities by a wide margin, but it didn't outperform the U$D. There may have been other things that outperformed the U$D, but I cannot identify any at the moment...
Anyway, the upper trend line of S&P is now 1250, no telling if we ever see that value again any time soon but if we do, I'll definitely be going short (I think I've learned my "lesson").
"Wow..spent about an hour scanning stories, blogs, etc. NOBODY is bullish. Farce, manipulated, etc..."
ReplyDeleteThank you for the work, Mark! I will now definitely restrain myself from buying SPY puts until Friday.
I'm starting to wonder exactly who responds to ads such as this one:
ReplyDelete"5.7% per month in ETFs?
Proven system. Trade only 10min a night. Easier than forex. No hype."
cp,
ReplyDeleteIMO China will take those dollars and spread them between buying resources or resource companies with assets they can use and defend, LENDING the dollars to anyone around the world willing to borrow them, and discreetly buying precious metals as much as are available on the markets in any deleveraging panio. I don't think they will spend more than a token amount buying US made good or services.
ps: i think the Chinese have BEEN quietly TRYING to do that already, and have so many dollars and so many more coming in that its hard to make any progress unloading them...
ReplyDeleteIn summary it all points to a melt up into inflation that is pretended not to exist, and instead relabeled as "growth". The only problem is it will appear as growth with no jobs, and they will have to explain that as improved "productivity".
ReplyDeleteLOL
Cheapy, I think world governments realize the possibility (or I should say, probability) that China intends on snapping up resources using their greenbacks. I also think these governments are prepared to block those efforts(via trade tariffs) if China doesn't relax their currency peg. Also, if China were to unload greenbacks in trade for resources, there would be a corresponding effect on the dollar?
ReplyDeleteSo any way you look at it, resources are the ticket once the panic selling is done.
cheapy - I don't see much inflation to be honest. With reduced demand associated with weak jobs markets and slow growth, it's really hard to have inflation. I think the odds of a 90's style Japanese deflation is pretty high.
ReplyDeletetof,
ReplyDeleteno inflation in wages or things you need to sell, but look at taxes, tuition and healthcare costs. All 10% per yr.
It will be a monetary thing when the dollar crashes, IMO. Just a guess on my part.
China leading indicator rises the most in 14 mths: Conference Board
ReplyDelete(Agencies)
Updated: 2010-06-16 09:54
A leading indicator for China jumped by the most in 14 months, adding to signs that the world's third-biggest economy is maintaining momentum as Europe's debt crisis threatens to undermine the global recovery.
The measure gained 1.7 percent to 147.1 in April, compared with a revised 1.2 percent increase in March, The Conference Board said on its website Tuesday.
"China is performing among the best of any economy around the world," Bill Adams, resident economist for the New York- based research organization, said in Beijing on Tuesday.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2010-06/16/content_9979865.htm
China eyeing major Greek investments: report
(Agencies)
Updated: 2010-06-15 15:11
China is eyeing investments valued at several billion euros in Greek shipping, logistics and airport projects, as the European nation battles to slash its massive debt, a report said Tuesday.
The news came as Moody's downgraded Greek debt on Monday night by four notches to junk. The debt is already rated junk by other agencies. Athens rejected the move and said it had taken significant steps to balance its books.
The investment deals are due to be signed on Tuesday during a visit to Athens by Chinese Vice-Premier Zhang Dejiang, the Financial Times reported, citing an unnamed Greek government official.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2010-06/15/content_9978532.htm
Long RBY. The rest of what I typed was lost by this stupid blog site. Silly me using the backspace key while editing the message text field.
ReplyDeleteGap down. No ----. Landry's right about the recent lack of a trend to follow.
ReplyDeleteLandry-
ReplyDeleteRandom Thoughts:
They are not going to make it easy on us. In a typical create the
most pain as possible fashion the dang market is going to squeeze
all us shorts out and THEN rollover.
Speaking of rollover, I still think the market has the potential to
resume its recent slide from its current overbought condition.
It's a one day at a time thing though. Hopefully, it'll do
something other than trade in a range like it has been lately.
I'm still seeing quite a few setups on the short side. Retail and
Oil Service seem to be providing the best looking opportunities.
I'm fielding a lot of questions this week on a variety of
topics---stop placement, discretion, determining
overbought/oversold etc.... I cover this in Thursday's chart show.
Bill mentions 'nuking' the Gulf to stop the leak- has that been in the news?
ReplyDeleteThe backspace key usually works for me, I've noticed some "difficulty" has returned since yesterday though.
ReplyDeleteIt's free, so I'm willing to put up with some inconvenience.
Long RBY - Looking to add or lighten up? RBY doesn't have a functional mine do they?
Red close
ReplyDelete2nd- Yes, nuking a well head has been done before in Russia.
ReplyDeleteSharkie- I don't know. VIX/Oil/DX are basically flat. Opex games to be played. Who the hell knows??
ReplyDeleteI DO want to get this week/quarter over with though.
ReplyDeleteFRE/FNM on sale! Anybody up for pulling a BP? Put them on suicide watch...
ReplyDeleteSold the rest of my MBLX at $15.17. Bought more BGZ at $14.6.
ReplyDeleteHey MArk,
ReplyDeleteGSX starting to happen, along with all the gas names.
Russia - The nuke was on land though, wasn't it? I don't know if the composition of the gulf stratum would even make it an option but the dynamics may be completely different and perhaps considerably more risky?
ReplyDeleteBeen watching JPM....Interesting here.
ReplyDeleteCP- No, it was deep sea.
GSX- Interesting chart. Thanks!! Got rejected at both 200's today. I'll add it to the list :)
ReplyDeleteTough day at the office so far...
ReplyDeleteReports that nukes will be used to plug the leak of bad market information coming from the Kara Kommunity are, at this point, unsubstantiated:)
ReplyDeleteHi guys, The video of the russian nuking was on land, an NG well.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't have to be a nuke, any explosion large enough to collapse the well casing will work.
It IS typical of us though, isn't it? The first thing we think of is the biggest overkill possible. the trouble is, you still have to dig a parallel hole to intersect the casing, and if you do that (like they are now) then there are other ways of plugging the damned thing.
Catastrophe still unfolding in the oil industry? Make an exception to the Jones act and get foreign built tankers in there to suck up the oil!
ReplyDeleteYea, I can think of a few holes that debatably should be plugged. I think it's about time to go hang out with the ducks...
ReplyDeletePAL has no qualms about quickly moving down the scale... Manipulation? I should do some DD and try to discover their level of importance to the market (which I don't think is going away).
CADC - holding up well
ReplyDeleteMark- What effect would nuking the ocean floor have? (Feel free to respond later in the day if you're off to work.)
ReplyDelete2nd- I can only let you know what MOG said about it. First, they won't do it. The relief well WILL work, eventually. If the nuke didn't work it could fracture the ocean floor instead of sealing the well. That would be the worse possible outcome.
ReplyDeleteGood call on work! I'm leaving early....otherwise I'd fall asleep watching this tape :)
Ciao boys!!!
IMO it would turn the gulf into the bikini islands with an added widely dispersed radioactive oil slick. The shockwave alone would kill all kinds of sealife, not to mention dispersing oil far and wide.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention open the door for BP to claim any resulting liability was no longer their fault.
This idea is like using a jackhammer to drive a thumbtack.
Maybe it's Nature's way of telling us not to ---- with things.
ReplyDeleteDid you catch Bev's (opening) comment on CC? If she's venting, it just confirms how difficult it has been to trade this tape.
ReplyDeleteThe tone at CC is always so condescending, I'm certain it's been tough following Bill's "winning" strategies. What's really irritating to me is his tendency to cherry pick through his daily conflicting remarks. I especially appreciated Bev's recognition of the CC censorship factor mentioned at the close of her post, so right on.
ReplyDeletePoor saps!
Re: Just VENTING.... Max Frustration newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4449 comments) on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 11:56 #64617 (in reply to #64587)
ReplyDeleteBev- I hear you. Playing a game where 'max frustration' is a common refrain probably isn't good for anyone's mental health.
I've been out of the game, more or less, for a few weeks now. It feels good enough that I may stay away much longer.
Did anyone feel a compelling urge to sell this morning? I was feeling it for a while there!
ReplyDeletecp
ReplyDeletehashing this over myself. (buy or sell or pack for panama)
smart trends says we are going up - brinker says this too.
long term we know what is coming so at some point, go to cash and rebuy gold on the dip.? is that the consensus here/
oh, here is a condo if you want to buy - look at what it sold for previously. there are hundreds and hundreds and even more pre foreclosures where people haven't paid for over a year.
http://www.trulia.com/property/1083519435-8915-Legacy-Ct-17303-Kissimmee-FL-34747
back to work i go!
:)
shark,
ReplyDeletei read bp is spraying dispersents over the mobile bay at night while people are sleeping. it is unreal - funny my parents have gotten very senile since the spill. (major decline in their memory)- of course the stress and worry for the elderly is enough to push one to the edge. they are worried about a hurricane hitting on top of the spill since they live on the water. now to think they are being sprayed at night...
ok back to work!!
Re: Just VENTING.... Max Frustration
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by Bev (641 comments) on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 12:08 #64619 (in reply to #64617)
You did the right thing 2nd. I will do the same at the close today.
Re: Just VENTING.... Max Frustration newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4450 comments) on Wed, 06/16/2010 - 12:34 #64621 (in reply to #64619)
Maybe if we all stop playing, they'll be stuck with black boxes competing against each other, and we can watch from the sidelines rooting for our favorite algo. Much more fun. Let the casino rot.
sold the RBY for about $3600 in profits for the past 2 days.
ReplyDeletevb - I thought you were headed for Spain? The condo in your post is only 40 min from Coco beach, looks like a reasonable place for a retiree or widower.
ReplyDeleteIf the federal government were to offer early retirement packages for civil servants in the DC area (which is quite possible) there might be waves of interest. Wonder when/if we'll begin hearing of federal furloughs?
"Federal furloughs
March 1st, 2010 | Agencies Transportation |
(Updated below) After years of a stagnant economy, furloughs are nothing new to private-sector workers — including newspaper reporters! — and even many state and local employees. But now they’re affecting the federal government.
It’s not because of the economy, though. The Senate needed to pass legislation last week to extend federal highway and transit programs — and the legislation was blocked by Sen. Jim Bunning, R-Ky., who said he objected to the bill because it wasn’t deficit-neutral. The legislation stalled.
The result? The Transportation Department has to furlough nearly 2,000 employees, starting today, and ending… whenever the bill gets passed."
http://blogs.federaltimes.com/federal-times-blog/2010/03/01/federal-furloughs/
Sorry for this late post re. yday's market (was on the road driving), but Cramer had some good (and honest comments) re. the show we're trying to play...
ReplyDeletehttp://madmoneyrecap.com/madmoney_nightlyrecap_100615_1.htm
Couldn't stay away!! Oh look...SPX up +.39. The excitment!!! Wake me up when we are +/- 10pts :)
ReplyDeleteThat's a lot of RBY:)
ReplyDeleteGreat job Bob!
But wait.....Isn't RBY just getting good?
ReplyDeleteBe ready to re-enter:)
rby crossing the 20 day
ReplyDeleteif it gets into the 3.40's and stays there it will be buyable
Sharkie- Take a look at the chart for JPM. Amazingly similar to RBY. Your comments about RBY are exactly the same as mine for JPM.
ReplyDeleteAhah...seee?
ReplyDeleteRBY potentially a buy...wait and watch.
I've taken ass-screwings in this one before so word up!
JPM...not the same:) Sorry.
ReplyDeleteOK so I'm looking to maybe get into RBY....
ReplyDeleteFDX getting weaker and weaker as the day goes on.
ReplyDeleteIf I look at the yearly chart that sure looks like lower highs/lows.
Same with BBY.
TOF- I like watching those type of stocks to see how they react also. I'm going to listen to the FDX call tonight. I saw a news report on my trading screen talking about next years costs being higher as they going to increase their air fleet.
ReplyDeleteI don't know for sure fellas, I'm really just guessing but I think I smell a bear trap...
ReplyDeleteCall me stupid....
no, I'm the one that's stupid. I wasn't here to rebuy RBY. Never should have sold it, as it was completely washed out, IMO.
ReplyDeleteGTU ON SALE TODAY DUE TO SHELF OFFERING.
ReplyDeletelong
"I don't know for sure fellas, I'm really just guessing but I think I smell a bear trap..."
ReplyDeleteOr maybe it's fickle f'krs again? :)
JPM @ 38.40. OK, I guess I should have waited until it closed above the 20 and FINREG, but by then I'm thinking it will be too late one way or the other.
ReplyDeleteanother post lost :(
ReplyDeleteCheapy- How are they getting lost?
ReplyDeleteJPM order imbalance on the buy side.
ReplyDeleteWorks for me...
ReplyDeletePast couple days I've noticed the same phenomenon we noted a couple months back, occasionally my posts don't show up for several minutes.
ReplyDeleteProbably sloppy software engineering, those guys have some of the very best compilers and structured languages in history but still manage to screw them up with spaghetti code...
Frick'n fickle f'krs tryin' ta take my treasures!
ReplyDeletevb - I'll put it this way, if you happen to see gold prices approaching their low of 2008 while the market is selling off in a panic, I think not buying there would be a mistake.
ReplyDeleteOf course I wish I'd kept mine, but I traded into stocks instead and I can't say I'm disappointed but having kept gold would have been nearly as good.
I suppose that could be distilled into a reason to move from stocks into gold or cash right now and wait for a crash to move back into stocks if a crash were your anticipation. The risk of moving to cash is there may not be a crash, except for the U$D, gold probably won't outperform the market if economic recovery were to transpire but it also wouldn't crash as much as equities if the opposite were the case.
I think I said that right... LOL, or at least the way I envision things might work.
No doubt there are differing opinions, but how many of them were anticipating gold being thrown out with the bathwater in 2008? After all who was selling gold and why on earth would they be selling at such a time when the global economy was falling off a cliff? If you say there were margin calls then I ask who the heck could afford to carry gold(no dividend, storage fees, expensive to trade, etc...) on margin in the first place? Gold was advertised as a safety play and that simply wasn't the case in comparison with U$D.
What, U$D better than gold? That's what I took away from the 2008 experience....
I was typing a post in and had typed a paragraph or 2 in, and was adding some more words to it when I saw the screen sort of flash and it came back to an empty post a comment screen. Its very disheartening when it happens.
ReplyDeleteI had a good day if you want to look at it that way, collecting a toll of over $4000 in the past 3 days putting less than $100k into RBY. I was the one buying the bottoms, and as usual did well at that, but sold too early again, leaving $3000 profit on the table.
Good work cheapy, it ain't easy!
ReplyDeleteAnyone ever try backtesting or learning to trade better using Thinkorswim's On Demand? It allows you to pick a day, time and ticker and replay the action, entering orders in a play money mode. Maybe I should be spending my hours trying it with highly liquid issues, and trying to find a few cash cows and consistent methods to extract same.
ReplyDeleteThis is all a casino. Even the real money is pretend, but nobody realizes it.
Thinkorswim On Demand - Never heard of it, bet it might be easy to back-test on div payers like NLY.
ReplyDeleteEmpty post and comment screen - Haven't had that happen yet. Maybe the page reloaded in the middle of your typing?
ReplyDeleteCheapy- I've messed around with it, and it's pretty cool. Not much help to me though as my trades are longer term. I did find I could scalp well with it though.
ReplyDeleteBP - Looking at the chart here, I'd say it almost looks like yesterday was a buying opportunity from a TA standpoint...
ReplyDelete