Thursday, June 24, 2010
6/25/10 Who Knows Where The Time Goes/ The Waiting Game
Across the evening sky, all the birds are leaving
But how can they know it's time for them to go?
Before the winter fire, I will still be dreaming
I have no thought of time
For who knows where the time goes?
Who knows where the time goes?
I'm starting to believe that 'Waiting' trumps 'Shorting,' even during a downtrend.
(a) Shorting must be the trading equivalent of reckless driving. It's dangerous in a way unique to shorts- the panic associated with a short squeeze (at least IMO) is at least twice as intense as the panic associated with a sell-off. With leveraged shorts, the anxiety is intensified more than 2-3 fold- it's enough to drive a sane trader into watching every tick.
(b) It requires excessive vigilance. Sell-offs are typically sharp and fast. Then prices bounce- hard. This translates into short windows. If you're not alert and focused, you're likely to (i) miss the boat to begin with, or (ii) watch profits turn into losses in the blink of an eye.
(c) It's 'easier' to play the long side. Price movements are slower, and uptrends last longer. When you're long, the world smiles with you. When you're short, you're on your own. Watch your back.
It's not necessary to profit both ways. The goal is maximum profit with minimum risk/anxiety. One can do quite well simply buying weakness and selling strength.
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A few thoughts about shorting from a guy who very rarely does it:
ReplyDeleteMy short "ideas" usually are actually that...ideas. (Enron, Martha Stewart, You may remember me going short Citi and then covering at a small loss around 20; Bill complimented me on opening that position.
BP short was a good idea and I should at some point have clamored aboard but did not.
So in other words, when it becomes obvious a company is really really broken (fre, FNM, Countrywide) then I would suggesticate that shorting is actually EASIER than longing.
Another thing about shorting....When going short you are reacting to a real, actual occurrance (the previous upmove). When going long, it's more like pissing into the wind; you may wind up with piss on your pantleg. When shorting a dying upmove, there's a real actual catalys to propel your trade there already, no hoping for anything right?
At the end of the day, sometimes shorting is easier. Sometimes longing is easier. But in neither case are things "easy" for too long, that 'aint the stock market.
I think one should ideally not have a long or short bias right?
ReplyDeleteSo even though I play mostly from the long side, that means I'm at least only losing money in one direction right:)?
From Molybdenum Material Safety Data Sheet just as an FYI, it appears this material is not considered particularly toxic or hazardous. I didn't think so, but since I remembered reading about concern over wildlife coming in contact wanted to confirm:
ReplyDeleteSECTION 6: HEALTH HAZARDS AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES
Acute Health Effects: Molybdenum is considered to have a relatively low order of toxicity and is rapidly excreted from the body.
Inhalation: Molybdenum dust may irritate the mucous membranes.
Eyes: Molybdenum dust may irritate the eyes.
Chronic Health Effects: Excessive intake may cause iron or copper deficiency leading to anemia or skeletal ossification.
http://www.elmettechnologies.com/about/documents/MolybdenumMaterialDataSafet.pdf
I think in order to do it right, you've got to play the short side at some point. The very best short I can think of at the moment would be NLY, because they're about to go ex-div and I know the price will fall back down to at least a $16 handle and wouldn't be surprised to see a $15 handle.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that when shorting, you pay the dividend.
ReplyDeleteThat's certainly true with positions like RRPIX, where each month you get docked the dividend payment, adding insult to injury ;)
shark- I thought 'longing' pertained to desire ;)
ReplyDeleteIts suicidal to have a long term short bias as long as the money/credit pumps are left on.
ReplyDeleteBut short term, it can be profitable, if timed right, I guess. I just haven't found any way to time it reliably right for more than a few minutes.
I think the economy will be back in recession by New Years. How bad it gets from there depends on the "kindness of strangers" who always seem so willing to buy more and more debt from us for only a pittance in interest. As long as that music keeps playing, the slowdown can be kept reasonable, but if a dollar crisis unfolds, the storm could get very nasty, indeed. Anyway, I think 2010 is a lost cause for the market. Tax hikes coming in 2011 will almost force everyone to sell and take their profits on their 2010 tax return, and so I think the overall direction will be down till there is light again at the end of the tunnel. Maybe things will get scary enough to be a real buying opportunity, but I'm not really going to worry if that doesn't happen either.
How boring of me to say I agree with all of the above. I guess I would add, find what seems to work for you. For some reason, I seem to see patterns better on the long side than short. Might just be recent positive reinforcement, but I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteIn the long run, greed out weights fear, and that's long. Shorts wont bring the market down, sellers do. Side step those big down spikes, and you'll come out ahead, I think.
For those of use that can't babysit positions all day long, it seems the more prudent play.
FWIW...I think we retest 1040.
ReplyDelete2nd,
ReplyDeleteI was planning to weave a "longing" joke into my above post but I forgot to:)
Good point re: paying the dividend, that needs to be accounted for prior to taking a short position. In that case, NLY might be a better short day after ex-div.
ReplyDeleteWow, what a beautiful voice!!!!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SIX-Qp6v4k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRFEeLEXn4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyQcQSqpbI&feature=related
and one by Cyndi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZDjnWtK1A&feature=fvw
One for the road Eva live.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMznNlfLXP4&feature=related
Speaking of the BP short we all missed out on:
ReplyDeleteCurrently bidding down another 8% or so @ 26.60...
Landry-
ReplyDeleteRandom Thoughts:
The market resumed its slide out of its recent overbought condition. I still think it has the potential to challenge the bottom if its recent range.
One day at a time but if it takes out these lows, it could have a long way to fall.
See yesterday's webcasts for more thoughts on this and some really bad Henry Kissinger imitations.
If you took trades in areas mentioned recently like Retail make sure you're trailing and scaling.
Futures are flat pre-market.
Seems like a day with the potential for a big up/down move. Something to do with removing the uncertainty of financial reform. I don't xpect a flat close. I will say...
ReplyDeleteGREEN CLOSE.
Bill Cara’s Blog for June 25, 2010
ReplyDeleteJune 25, 2010 by Bill Cara
Morning Call [7:42am ET] Equity prices in Europe at this point today are weak, again. The US market equity futures are very weak. But my sense of the market tells me there will be a successful test of the S&P 1050 lows of May and June today and then it will be clear sailing for the Bulls. I would anticipate yet another run to try to break out of the upper resistance bands – where there will be another failure.
Why? Asia-Pacific markets were down, but not decisively. Europe is down, a bit really, nothing too serious, and yet the Greek, Italian, and French banks are up, which tells me there is quantitative easing happening this morning in Europe, as we are likely to have later in the day in the US.
A measure of quantitative easing there, a little here, the relationship between the two doesn't change while prices of certain other things not fiat should rise?
ReplyDeleteTLT has been on a tear but is it rolling over now?
I know it's early in the day, and the Con. Sen. # was good, but looking at the things I follow, we might have seen a ST bottom.
ReplyDeleteRIMM - Still sinking... No product news, just promises?
ReplyDeleteNLY ex-div today.
TOF- Did you see my comment on RIMM yesterday? Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteINTC back under 20. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteRIMM...My 3 day rule will apply regardless.
ReplyDeleteINTC - Probably a decent choice here, I'd bet it will rally into 7/13 earnings or stay flat at worst unless the big selloff happens.
ReplyDeleteLooking at various charts, etc. kinda get the feeling this market's going north. Doesn't mean it's gonna happen...
ReplyDeleteCRYP off @ 2.20. Weekend trip to Sacto! :(
ReplyDeleteStink bid for INTC @ 19.69.
ReplyDeleteSo here's where I get hosed every time, market moves north without giving me my big selloff/add opportunity but not north enough to sell(I always say I will sell but never do b/c I'm still waiting for the big fire sale that never comes).
ReplyDeletelong PAL 3.38
ReplyDeleteTM - Sitting right on the 52wk low.
ReplyDeleteshark - any opinions on GRS or TGB. PAL too thin for me. Thanks man
ReplyDeleteShorting was discussed here recently. Jim Chanos is one of the best.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.marketfolly.com/2010/06/jim-chanos-on-short-selling-power-of.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MarketFolly+(Market+Folly)
i think the smart move is to be shorting here and use 1,080 as a stop out point. looking at the trading in FDX, CSCO, INTC, BBY, JWN, DOW, and a handful of others tells me that today is not the day for the market to go higher...not yet.
ReplyDeleteI just went long the July 02 $109 SPY puts at $2.40 because I think the market will close lower. I think the market will be selling the fin reg news initially and I think this hurricane in the gulf is going to be a big fear for the market.
ReplyDeletemy positions are small and I'm sticking to just options because I don't want to put too much money at risk. Also, I will buy calls if the market spikes over 1,080 and stays there.
Any idea what happened to the price of oil about an hour and half ago?
ReplyDeleteKyle...What do you mean too thin? How many millions are you planning to commit?
ReplyDeleteGRS=stay away.
TGB a potential huge winner.
I guess it's all about the $.
ReplyDeleteshark - Thanks man... Am already dealing with one 'chicken scratch' chart (DAG) trying to avoid others. MU looks interesting...
ReplyDeleteGS taking off...
ReplyDeleteRIMM...There's a gap to fill back to last April @ 49.59...with a tiny one @46.50 the day before.
ReplyDelete2nd,
ReplyDeleteGoldman made a pretty nice looking potential higher low, is making a nice hammer also on the dailies. And why not?
Financial reform is a dead duck, just like people-friendly health care, just like a clean energy policy.
I like Obama but he's a freaking disaster!
BTW if you like financials, C is doing something nice also.
ReplyDeleteI guess Wall street either wrote or just now read the financial reform bill and I am inferring that it's bullshit:)
Take a look at the intra-day of FTWR. Yikes!
ReplyDeleteMark, do you know what is driving oil in the medium term? There was a larger than expected inventory on Wednesday (and USO dropped), but it rebounded a little right away on Thursday (during a down market!) and now it is exploding upwards. Such things happen only when there is a powerful medium-term story behind the stock, and I wonder what it is...
ReplyDeleteIWM has been sliding for the past 5 days, and so today, when the market is getting a little pop, in understandably is having a short squeeze and is up much more than the broad market. However, with all the tax hikes hitting the small+medium businesses and with high-yield bond spreads widening, this market segment should do very poorly, and so I just bought 100 more shares of TWM at $20.93.
ReplyDeleteLooks like my observation about UNG's intraday support at $8 turned out to be correct -- after successfully testing that support over the past few days (dipping only briefly below it, just enough to trigger stops that were placed exactly at $8), UNG has resumed its upmove.
ReplyDeleteLast hour should be interesting...
ReplyDeleteS&P - Definitely an H&S pattern there, head mid April. B/C it's so obvious maybe another bear trap?
ReplyDeleteWhat was up with the crazy volume EOD. Last time I saw anything like that was the last re-balance. Take a look at FTWR for example. Happened across the board in the stuff I follow.
ReplyDelete"In the long run, greed out weights fear, and that's long"
ReplyDeleteMark, Very good Point!
vb
Its suicidal to have a long term short bias as long as the money/credit pumps are left on.
ReplyDeleteCheapy,
I agree. You can still play this market on a day trade and be long. Long term is get the bomb shelter in place
Our generation has had it So Good, time to look at old family pictures and remember the hard times they went through for us. 2nd, has stories and i am sure others do to. Emmigrants to the usa starting with zero. We lived on credit and drove expensive gas driven cars.
cheapy, I don't agree "the economy will be back in recession by new new years". does that mean we are coming out of the depression by new year?? wow, that would be good news.
vb
Damn...This is crazy shit. Take a look at BMRC.
ReplyDeleteCP- I'm counting on you to find out what the hell we all missed. GMO 1M shares AH???
ReplyDeleteForget it, I found it. Russell 3000 rebalancing....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.russell.com/indexes/membership/Reconstitution/Reconstitution_changes.aspx
Why the hell doesn't this show up on some type of calender?
vb,
ReplyDeleteI think in this Keynesian world of FIAT currencies and debt to the moon, what gets called a "depression" appears as a string of recessions with partial recovery bounces where they printed like crazy to avoid collapse, between them. I also think its good to keep in mind that they usually don't even admit recessions existed till they are over, usually, probably trying to avoid scaring the public.
As you stated, our ancestors learned from the depressions that people and nations shouldn't try to live beyond the means provided by their production. We keep pretending we can get away with it, since the 60's or 70's I think, but in the end, it will bankrupt us all, both people and nation. Sadly our government is doing everything to help us get to a complete collapse sooner by burying us in debt, and doing it in the name of "helping" us.
For example, do you recall any real recovery after the NASDAQ crash and 9/11? The only things happening were GM's "keep America rolling" campaign, and houses for everyone financed with money from "mortgage brokers". Where did that money come from? It was the money we had spent on imports being LENT back to us, with the loans disguised as AAA credit. We have been bouncing from recession to recession since 2000, devaluing the dollar like madmen to try to make things look "Ok" still. All of Bush's jobs created got wiped out as adjustments each year, as though the lack of jobs didn't affect real people. Those jobs were all outsourced offshore and will never return. IMO, somehow they fudged the numbers to make all that appear as "productivity gains". We are just going into another dip as the lunatic stimulus winds down yet again. As I've said before, I don't think the depression will end until the debt is reduced to repayable levels or we have a complete wipe out collapse and reset. We just don't think of these things because they haven't happened here in so long that our only memories of them is in sad old photos of our ancestors, and a little here or there in history books, with little or no mention of the cause (depressions are caused by the booms that preceded them, IMO).
ReplyDeleteAll that said, my degree is in Bus/Econ, but was primarily in Accounting, not Economics, so these are all just common sense deduction on my part, not something I could point to a book for.
Russell 3000 rebalancing
ReplyDeletehappens every year this time of
oops,
ReplyDeletehappens every year this time of year
Cheapy, I suppose we should all get set for the next round of QE2 (no not the Queen Mary 2).
ReplyDeleteWhat other bullets do they have?
I think the Govt will keep borrowing and spending, and the Fed will keep buying debt, and Freddie and Fannie will keep handing out money like it was just paper, all in a continued effort to keep the "unsustainable" borrowing, debt and spending bubbles sustained.
ReplyDeleteThe question is when does something happen to cause that unsustainable train to go off the tracks? The farther away we get from "reasonable" debt and spending levels, the less stable the whole thing would be when something goes wrong, I'd expect. While the Euro area is in crisis, I think the dollar is seen as "stable", but at some point the others will already have fallen, and the dollar will be next in line.
They don't have any bullets left except more printing and lying, I don't think. I can't even imagine them fessing up and forcing the govt and people to live within the means our production actually provides, but somehow its got to get there as I see it, by hook or by crook, and likely forced, not voluntary.
Looks like I'm the only one partying tonight :)...
ReplyDelete(That's drool under my mouth)
Ok, just this once, I'll be a bit sociable. Usually, I only drink at the racetrack (afterwards), or on the sailboat, or every once in a while if we have guests over.
ReplyDeleteI was sitting here reflecting on the week. I made a good amount of money, and only had a few sour trades, all, that had I stuck it out a bit longer, would have been winners. That says I'm buying well. But I really haven't solved my when to sell problem. I keep telling myself I'm going to unwind in chunks as things rise till they pull back into my rising trailing stop, but I never enter the stop orders, and always sell too early.
Maybe I will try practicing it on a simulator so I get used to doing things that way. If it does well on the simulator, that might provide sufficient positive reinforcement to get me to do it live.
BTW, I made a 94 proof Kraken and Coke Zero, with 1/2 normal rum. Its quite tasty. Its good to do well enough to be able to afford the good stuff. Imagine the poor sods that can only afford the Ronrico or worse...
ReplyDeletecheapy,
ReplyDeleteyour diagnostics ring true to me. thank you
miss vanilla bean
2nd_ave: I can understand your strategy of not trading the market until it gets really oversold. But in the meantime, there are a bunch of other instruments that have a very low correlation with S&P: UNG and SGG are the ones we have discussed here. Why not trade them in the meantime? Both of them already had spectacular collapses and seem to be at the beginning of the new uptrend -- a perfect time to buy, I think...
ReplyDeleteDavid- Nice work with SGG my friend. Today's action is significant to me that it finally broke above 45. Looking at the underlying, the chart is more impressive. If this level holds, 49.50 is resistance. Well done, Sir.
ReplyDeleteDavid- I posted my comment about SGG before I saw yours!
ReplyDeleteCheapy- I've had Kraken before, quite tasty!!
FF- What's up man?!
Here is a history of my SGG trade: I opened a small position at $41.79, then sold it at $44, thinking that I will be able to reload it under $40. SGG did drop to $42.XX after I sold it, and I decided to place a buy stop order at $44 so as to get back in at the same price as I sold it if it decided to move up (recalling Alex Elder's words about pro traders not minding taking several shots at the trade they like before they actually nail it). That order got triggered, and I placed a sell stop at $43.25. Now that SGG rose above $45.50 today, I decided to invoke the rule of not letting a profit turn into a loss and moved up my stop to $44. So now either SGG rises above $50 and I sell it for good, or it hits my stop at $44 and then, hopefully, drops below $40, where I'll reload my small position and then keep scaling into it if it keeps going down.
ReplyDeleteMark, I posted my latest comment before I saw yours! :) I just wanted to share my way of thinking with the community, inviting, as always, comments on my trading practice, where I am still a novice...
ReplyDeleteDouble dip here we come.
ReplyDeleteECRI dipped closer to the -10% level, which has signaled a recession 100% of the time for the past 42 years, dropping from -5.8% to -6.9%.
This is what I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpfbcXTeo8
t3d,
ReplyDeleteKeynesian economics has failed. To be honest I think it was always wrong, and never did work. They just wanted to WISH it would work. This time the Fed has no ammo left to use to bail it out other than print/debase/devalue. The tax hikes in 2011 will cause the downturn to accelerate.
Russell rebalancing:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.russell.com/Indexes/membership/Reconstitution/default.asp
Tax hikes and government debt: Too funny, QE is a tax hike. It's only a question of who has enough to tax? Your money is in cash or government debt, you're the diluted(deluded?) shareholder(the message is: get out of cash to avoid taxation). If income is falling off a cliff, business tax increases would only compensate the loss differential(partially?) and perhaps accelerate economic slide.
A majority of U$D(80%?) is outside country, QE would cause some of that to return but an opposing force of Euro/lb QE could offset.
How does China QE the yuan, keeping up with the Jones'? Keep trading those slips of paper earned on the backs of her "impoverished" people to buy everyone's government debt. Can inflation in China go off scale from their efforts to maintain Chinese export machine?
Seems like China must de-peg or drown buying government debt.
FTWR - Was added to R-3000, should be good for shareholders, right?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.russell.com/indexes/membership/Reconstitution/Reconstitution_changes.aspx
new post
ReplyDelete