I really believe that markets rise on skepticism. Skepticism is aka rocket fuel. I don't go out of my way to find it- it's either present or it's absent.
My response to a poster this afternoon:
Re: Rocket Higher On Earnings?/ Long FSRBX/FSELX at the close newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4725 comments) on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 18:53 #71274 (in reply to #71271)
Dave- No apology needed. As you know, I've been posting comments since 2005. Let me outline the evolution of my trading style:
(a) Buy and hold in core accounts spiked with a few swing trades.
(b) Buy and hold alternating with shorts, spiked with a few swing trades.
(c) Swing trades based on strategies that could be reasonably explained, spiked with day trades.
(d) Day trades using strategies based purely on gaming crowd psychology.
(e) Day trades using strategies based on gaming perverse forms of crowd psychology.
Obviously, intuition has played/still plays a part in all of the above.
I use what works (for me), and recently I've made comments about nothing beyond straight intuition working. (Is it possible that when trading against software that executes trades in milliseconds + sophisticated strategies designed to confuse those using tradtional metrics, the only effective defense is intuition? Well, who knows...) When I'm hit with the instinct to trade (whether to open/close, or in response to a about ST market direction), the instinct is usually 'coupled' with an image or fleeting thought. I almost always post the image or thought without much editing- ergo, the thought this morning that the market will ramp up b/c no one expects it to. That's really the best I can do right now. I'd be lying otherwise.
Note that I'm often wrong, and when I'm wrong, I close the trade quickly (as I did early this morning with TZA/VXX)- that in and of itself often keeps me out of trouble (as Landry might say).
So I may be absolutely wrong. But I have no problem putting money on my instincts. What's the point of having instincts otherwise?
So I followed my instincts and canceled the FSRBX/FSELX 5 minutes before market close.
ReplyDeleteJuuust kidding.
ReplyDeleteNow here's a clear thinker:
ReplyDeleteRe: Rocket Higher On Earnings?/ Long FSRBX/FSELX at the close
Submitted by bobbyo (590 comments) on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 19:20 #71275 (in reply to #71274)
Dave,
I find it hilarious that you take 2nd to task for using fallacious logic as a catalyst for his trades,IN THE STOCK MARKET! Clear logic is usually the ticket to success in the market right? It seems that your desire for direct causation of 2nds reasoning for a trade or for moves in the market itself could be construed as a trading fallacy. From your post your tired of all the market BS explaining WHY something happens. You seek the true reason of WHY something happens. Why.
Bob
'Surprising Buys in Large-Cap Stocks' newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4726 comments) on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 19:35 #71276
ReplyDeleteNow here's some truly useful advice from David Trainer:
http://tinyurl.com/2e5jef4
During an appearance on the “Your Money with Chuck Jaffe” podcast, Trainer said investors are better off digging through management’s statements than income statements.
“As a former auditor, I can tell you that companies can put whatever they want into income statements and balance sheets, but they have to at least justify or explain what they put there by what they put into the notes and [management’s statement],” Trainer said.
“It’s a shame folks spend so much time trusting that number [net income] that is highly manipulated and so often misleading,” he added. The “net income number is purposely molded to be the best possible representation of the business in order to facilitate the selling of the stock.”
Goldman Sachs, for example, is an issue where “the current stock price implies the company’s profits will drop by 35% . . . and never grow profits again.”'
fwiw, I feel the same way about INTC and WFC...
Every time I see one of those graphs on SOH projecting the future of the SPX with a large downward arrow I laugh- not b/c they will necessarily be wrong next time, but b/c every one of them has so far been wildly wrong.
ReplyDeleteI still remember the days when I would post comments about Seoul breaking through 1500. Well, it's about to break 1900 soon.
ReplyDelete2nd - thanks for the link to the Jaffe interview...regarding JNJ > did you know that they have increased their dividend by 3.38 fold over the past 10 years? man, i would love to be in a position to have $1+ Million and buy a few stocks whose dividends triple over the next 10 years and have that dividend ultimate be able to support my living standards. one company i have watched for 2 years now that i think is that type of company is BCPC. i love that company.
ReplyDeleteby the way, pretty much all indexes in the world are near to above their previous highs. i gotta believe we follow. i'm now 100% long again as a result.
Yeah- there's a strong magnetic pull towards 1200...
ReplyDeleteElections are three weeks away- let's juice the market and put voters in a good mood- ie, we need a few measures approved that involve an increase in one tax or another...
Just can't stop stirring the pot, can ya' 2nd? ;)
ReplyDeleteIt's no fun without a little dissension. My comments are actually less incendiary than Vad's when he talks about roasting bears on skewers.
ReplyDeleteDamn- Shanghai sold off hard at the open, only to bungee right back above 2800...
ReplyDeleteDJIA futes -39. Not unexpected at this point.
ReplyDeleteRe: Rocket Higher On Earnings?/ Long FSRBX/FSELX at the close
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by Illini (451 comments) on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 21:31 #71280 (in reply to #71275)
2nd & Dave,
Differences in 'personality type" is something that differentiates us as humans. See "Myers-Briggs Type Indicator" under Wikipedia. Dave would probably test out as a sensing, thinking type on 2 out of 4 functions of the profile. 2nd would be the flip side with intuition and feeling as predominant in the perceiving and judging functions, respectively. There is no best way. Genius can come from either angle. I have tested out twice as an INFP (Introverted,Intuitive,Feeling, Perceptive) type. It has not made me a million bucks.
All that aside, I will be signing off for a while as I undergo hip replacement surgery Thursday and recover afterwards. GLD is my biggest position and a stop loss limit order will be in place.
reply Bookmark this Ignore thread Ignore user
Re: Rocket Higher On Earnings?/ Long FSRBX/FSELX at the close newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4727 comments) on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 21:44 #71281 (in reply to #71280)
Illini- Best wishes for an uneventful surgery and a speedy recovery. It might be a great time to catch up on your reading- you probably already have a stack set aside.
Re: Rocket Higher On Earnings?/ Long FSRBX/FSELX at the close
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by Illini (451 comments) on Mon, 10/11/2010 - 21:31 #71280 (in reply to #71275)
2nd & Dave,
Differences in 'personality type" is something that differentiates us as humans. See "Myers-Briggs Type Indicator" under Wikipedia. Dave would probably test out as a sensing, thinking type on 2 out of 4 functions of the profile. 2nd would be the flip side with intuition and feeling as predominant in the perceiving and judging functions, respectively. There is no best way. Genius can come from either angle. I have tested out twice as an INFP (Introverted,Intuitive,Feeling, Perceptive) type. It has not made me a million bucks.
All that aside, I will be signing off for a while as I undergo hip replacement surgery Thursday and recover afterwards. GLD is my biggest position and a stop loss limit order will be in place.
Thanks 2nd....and you were faster than me on re-posting my post.
ReplyDeleteillini - here's to a relaxing and speedy recovery. It's amamzing what they can do these days.
ReplyDeleteillini- Best of luck. That's a tricky procedure. Look forward to your healthy return.
ReplyDeleteillini - We all wish you well, hurry back!
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize China is #2 in military spending; the US spends over $100B/yr...
ReplyDeletedavid - natty injections have been above the 5 yr average all along but they are below the highest inejection season which was last year. I'll post the link below but I think you've referenced this link before from EIA
ReplyDeletehttp://ir.eia.gov/ngs/ngs.html
I've read it in a couple of reports now (Credit Suisse was one, can't remember the other) that cooling loads were much higher this summer and that's why storage injections have been lower than last year. I think I also read that while this was not THE HOTTEST summer, it was one of the hottest summers on record.
Also, I was under the impression that storage players were buying gas to inject and not hedging in the forward market but my grizzled gas veteran contact thinks storage players are hedging.
I don't think most producers own storage but we still think they can reduce their output some if they don't like prices. I have not read anything about that yet. Now companies like BP, Shell, Chevron, Conoco, they all have major marketing groups and they would do the same thing that you and I would do, arbitrage storage regardless of production. Exxon is a little different from the rest. I've been told that they don't hedge any of their oil and gas production.
One last note before I go, I would expect cash prices to plument if we don't get some cold weather or a forecast for VERY cold weather soon. Jan11 is trading about $1.00 below next winter so most of us are starting to look at rolling our storage withdrawals forward. That's probably impacting the forwards already for next summer.
how bout them jets! could i finally be lucky enough to see a super bowl appearance, no less a win this year?
ReplyDeletefutes tanking. maybe we all were a little too bullish? lets see if the nikkei can rebound at the close here.
illini - good luck with the procedure and your recovery!
At least we weren't too late being bullish.
ReplyDeleteI'd be surprised though if we sell off going into elections but then again elections might be a reason to rally from oversold conditions.
ReplyDeleteport2013, can you please explain why you "expect cash prices to plument if we don't get some cold weather or a forecast for VERY cold weather soon"?
ReplyDelete"Jan11 is trading about $1.00 below next winter so most of us are starting to look at rolling our storage withdrawals forward."
What do you mean by rolling storage withdrawls forward? Do you mean not selling gas now but waiting until next summer/winter? In that case, wouldn't there be less gas available for this winter, which should push the cash prices UP???
As for the futures tanking, it could be the start of the scenario I mentioned a couple of times: a nice sell-off over the next few weeks so as to make it easier for the Fed to announce a larger QE2 program.
ReplyDeleteFrom the sentiment point of view, EVERY recent market commentary I read on the web said the market will keep rising until the November meeting and only AFTER the meeting the market may sell off if the Fed doesn't announce a larger enough QE. So can the market really keep rising if we already had a FULL MONTH for EVERYONE to position themselves long ahead of the Fed meeting? No one is left to do the buying now...
Re: No POMO, No MOMO newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4728 comments) on Tue, 10/12/2010 - 06:40 #71302 (in reply to #71301)
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's 'Don't taunt the bears.' ;) Unless one is at least armed and a good shot.
I would agree that bulls will be promoting the concept of an 'orderly pullback' as the pause that refreshes. Or maybe they'll be selling metals in order to rotate into financials and technology.
Trading can sometimes resemble an unending chess game.
Futes - From what I'm hearing, aside from concerns over the real estate market and overbought conditions, China has just pulled in the reins with revised banking restrictions.
ReplyDeleteWell I see Shanghai closed with nice gains, so maybe the effect there will be limited?
ReplyDeleteWho wants to bet we retest the 20SMA?
ReplyDelete"China's building material industry's gross profit up 50.3%
ReplyDeleteOct. 11, 2010 (China Knowledge) - China's building material industry has booked RMB 107.8 billion in gross profit in the first eight months, up 50.3% year on year, according to statistics released by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology.
The figure was 11.6 percentage points less than that of the period from January to May due to rising raw material prices and purchase prices.
The cement industry's gross profit jumped 21.4% year on year to RMB 26.7 billion in the reporting period. The cement product sector recorded RMB 12.7 billion in gross profit, swelling 53.1% from the same period of last year.
The glass manufacturing industry for the building sector generated gross profit of RMB 11.3 billion, up 187.7% year on year, and the gross profit of manufacturing industry for building and sanitary ceramics grow 43.7% year on year to RMB 10.9 billion."
http://www.chinaknowledge.com/Newswires/News_Detail.aspx?NewsID=37584
"PBOC hikes required deposit ratio for 6 commercial banks
ReplyDeleteOct. 12, 2010 (China Knowledge) - The People's Bank of China, the country's central bank, has temporarily increased required reserve ratio for six large commercial banks with effort to help manage liquidity and cope with inflationary pressure, sources reported."
http://www.chinaknowledge.com/newswires/News_Detail.aspx?type=1&cat=FIN&NewsID=37625
How much electric power does your home consume? My all-electric home consumes an annualized average of 1030KWH.
ReplyDelete"China weighs tiered electricity pricing mechanism for residents
Oct. 12, 2010 (China Knowledge) - China's National Development and Reform Commission, the country's top economic planner, said that it has started seeking public opinions on its tiered electricity pricing mechanism for domestic residents, the China Daily reported, citing unnamed official with NDRC.
The new pricing mechanism is expected to help save energy and protect the environment without causing a marked increase in the cost of power for the majority.
Under the mechanism, electricity prices of residential users would be charged according to three tiers, said the official, adding that the prices would be at a level reflective of the costs arising from scarcity of resources and environmental damage.
Around 70% or 80% of Chinese households who consume electricity of up to 110 kWh or 140 kWh per month will be almost unaffected by the new policy because power prices for them would remain the same or be adjusted higher by RMB 0.01 per kWh.
Another 20% or 15% of the households who consume electricity of up to 210 kWh or 270 kWh each month would have to pay prices higher by more than RMB 0.05 per kWh for the additional power beyond the line of 110 kWh or 140 kWh.
For the remaining 10% or 5% who consume more than 210 kWh or 270 kWh per month, the power use beyond the level would be charged at a price of at least RMB 0.2 per kWh higher than the current uniform price."
That's 1030KWH/month, 9 times more than 70% of Chinese households.
ReplyDeleteCADC - Bidding @ $4.15 here, gotta keep the price up. ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat I did:
ReplyDeleteA few minutes b4 yesterdays close I sold GMO once it became clear that I had been the last on board a bullish selling oppty. I lost 4 cents per share. I will watch it and try to get in again.
This morning I sold GSX for a small profit.
Shoulda sold it yesterday for more.
we haven't really had a back test of 1,150 yet so it's pretty logical that we get one here.
ReplyDeleteRE: REDF - I think it crashes soon. India looks like it had a blowoff top or is damn close to one.
I didn't like the late day selling yesterday, but it seemed there were eager dip-buyers showing up...???
ReplyDeleteMy energy plays are finally coming back to me..Just a little more please.
ReplyDeleteHave the Johnny come lately's finished selling?
ReplyDeleteJust a quick thought, Along with everyone else, I think we need the financials to lead us if we are to get another leg up. Might that be starting right now?
ReplyDeleteI came THIS CLOSE to buying eslr at .77 afew minutes ago but didn't....yet.
ReplyDeleteCould be rotation into financials? Maybe, don't see how with the unresolved real estate foreclosure issue still hanging but since BAC are such "Nice guys and good Americans" for stopping their foreclosure process, there may be something positive going on in the background we're not privy to?
ReplyDeleteAnd why am I always such an optimist?
CP- I know. I'm just thinking with all of the bad news lately, it might be due for a pop.
ReplyDeletetook a shot on a little eslr
ReplyDeletejeez...BYD has been up for like 3 weeks now. kinda getting used to just seeing it green. amazing how much these casino stocks have run yet some of them, particularly MGM and BYD, are way way way way way off their old highs. doubles from here wouldn't be out of the question if the economy continues to improve.
ReplyDeleteXLF - Trying to go green.
ReplyDeleteSMH - Pretty much green, considering...
TOF - "Casino stocks" Aren't they all!
ReplyDeleteGL players....
ReplyDeleteFYI - RAS about to cross the 200 DMA.
ReplyDeleteI took a 3 centavos profit on 9k shares eslr....
ReplyDelete..a play I call the "Bearded Russian":):):)
and enuff to buy a tin of beluga!
Seems like keeping their currency out of the market is a top priority for China...
ReplyDeleteWhere do I sign up to establish an account managed by HFT's?
ReplyDeletegeezus
ReplyDelete"The Obama administration is lifting a moratorium on deepwater oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, officials said Tuesday"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_drilling_moratorium
david - i'm stoked for you on the WATG trade. excellent! looks like it's breaking out.
ReplyDeleteLet's see:
ReplyDelete(a) TLT is selling off- WTF!!
(b) VXX is selling off- WTF!!
Wait a minute, I'm a bull....then everything's cool....
Sharkie - I'm sure kitty would like to share your can of balooga...
ReplyDeleteLooks like REDF has passed the winner's baton to ESLR! Too bad I got shaken out of the extra ESLR I picked up at $0.66 so early on... But then, I wasn't able to hold my initial position in REDF for longer than a few days into its rally, so what else is new. :(
ReplyDeleteWell, at this point I still have a long-term position in ESLR that I have acquired at much higher prices (which is doing some magical lifting of my port today) and also a short position in REDF (I have just moved my buy to cover stop down to $5, so as not to lose money on this trade), so today's action, taken in isolation, is still pretty good for me.
I remember how ESLR once had a 30% up day, from $2 to $2.60. We know what happened then. So today is probably my last chance to get out of my ESLR with only a HUGE loss, rather than a TOTAL loss. :) But then, there was REDF, and it was going up at this rate for 2 weeks... I guess that's why 2nd_ave said that stocks like REDF destroy amateur investors.
ReplyDeleteHey David. It definitely is solar day over at CNBC, no doubt.
ReplyDeleteI should state up front that I have the flu or a bad cold and am not exactly thinking clearly.
I made about two-fitty on a batch of evergreen solar which I sold too soon/too cheap but that's life.
If you want to sell and re-load that's cool but I do not think the up move in eslr is over and done with.
When a buyable higher low is established in a week or 3 this name will take off to the upside.
Check out the long lower shadow in GMO today...is oppty knocking?
GSX...doa.
ANO...I expect this name to continue higher...and maybe when we least xpect it.
ReplyDeletelong bzh investment
ReplyDeleteRe: The Pause that Refreshes/ Earnings will drive the indexes newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4729 comments) on Tue, 10/12/2010 - 14:49 #71342 (in reply to #71340)
ReplyDeleteIt's no longer QE2- I really believe that was in fact pretty much priced in. Now it's earnings. I think we power higher on Q4 guidance from INTC/LLTC/JPM/GOOG/INFY/GE.
11400/1225 might even attract retail buyers newSubmitted by 2nd_ave (4730 comments) on Tue, 10/12/2010 - 15:02 #71346 (in reply to #71345)
ReplyDeleteThose levels would clearly indicate the trend has not changed, and would probably compel sidelined investors back into the market. Throw in a few comments on CNBC about the 'Next Roaring Twenties,' and we're good until 12500/1300.
David- It would be appropriate to say that ESLR has passed the loser's baton to REDF...
ReplyDeleteSPY 117...
ReplyDeleteback long ano
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect to the Perma-Bulls, we might be coming to an end of this excursion...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.screencast.com/t/TnzKhAiPUn
"David- It would be appropriate to say that ESLR has passed the loser's baton to REDF..."
ReplyDeleteWell, if ESLR was able to get rid of that baton, that's already good enough for me. :) At least it will stop eating away at my portfolio!
I'll tell ya what, I really thought today looked like the end of the excursion....
ReplyDeleteRe: 52-week low on VXX 14.73
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by jack black (842 comments) on Tue, 10/12/2010 - 13:46 #71330 (in reply to #71328)
I mentioned that before and I will mention again. Trading long VXX sounds like fighting against odds in casino. The correlation between VXX and VIX is awful. I will look into shorting it at some points.
Re: 52-week low on VXX 14.73
Submitted by DavidV (33 comments) on Tue, 10/12/2010 - 17:29 #71366 (in reply to #71330)
Great idea, jack. I had the same thought recently. Just like shorting TZA is a winning strategy long term, so is shorting VXX. Except that TZA can rise manyfold if all hell breaks loose, but we can definitely count on investors to become complacent at regular time intervals. So all we need is to wait for the next spike in VIX into 30's and then start scaling into 6-month VXX puts (6 month is plenty of time for investors to swing from fear back into greed).
Re: 11400/1225 might even attract retail buyers
ReplyDeleteSubmitted by DavidV (34 comments) on Tue, 10/12/2010 - 17:38 #71367 (in reply to #71346)
Since quoting Rosenberg is a popular item today, I'll respond to 2nd_ave's idea with yet another quote:
"When the Fed embarked on QE1 in early 2009, the market also caught the tailwind of the bottoming-out in profits and the turnaround that ensued. But keep in mind that profit growth is now receding, the outlook quite uncertain, margins are at a peak and no longer at a trough as was the case in early 2009, and expectations are now for more double-digit growth, not double-digit declines. There is no longer a wall of worry to climb but instead a wall of optimism and complacency, as seen by the vast majority of sentiment surveys."
2nd_ave -- what's happening to your "trading against the crowds" style?
I, personally, don't like being long in this hugely overbought, wishful-thinking market. So I just opened a small position TWM (200 shares) after hours at $16.44 so as to hedge a little better my long market exposure. I will keep scaling into TWM, buying 100 shares for each $1 drop in it.
ReplyDeleteLast time, when I started this game in February 2010, I accumulated a large position in TWM before the market uptrend ran out of steam in late April (which is to say that the market kept moving against me for a LONG time), and I was simply lucky to move my TWM into TZA at the peak. This time, I am starting to scale into TWM *AFTER* a huge move in IWM over the previous month, so I think my odds of profiting from this game a much larger now than they were in February 2010.
TOF- Thought this might change your trading thesis on BYD....
ReplyDeleteMGM MIRAGE Announces Sale of Atlantic City Land Leased To Borgata To Vornado Realty Trust And Geyser Holdings
Tuesday, 27 Jul 2010 05:48pm EDT
MGM MIRAGE announced that it has recently reached an agreement to sell four long-term ground leases and their respective underlying real property parcels at The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa in Atlantic City, New Jersey to Vornado Realty Trust and Geyser Holdings for approximately $73 million. The underlying real property parcels subject to the transaction are comprised of approximately 11.3 acres. The parties entered into a purchase and sale agreement regarding this transaction on July 2, 2010. Following the completion of the inspection period under such agreement, the parties have agreed to proceed with matters in preparation for closing. The parties expect the transaction to close by the fourth quarter of this year.
NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- MGM Resorts (MGM_)announced on Tuesday that it received a bid for its 50% stake in the Borgata.
ReplyDeleteMGM did not disclose the bidder for Borgata, but said the offer equals about $250 million for its 50% interest. The company jointly owns the Atlantic City casino with Boyd Gaming(BYD_).
Since this is less than MGM's carrying value of its investment in Borgata, the company expects to incur a pre-tax impairment charge of about $128 million in its third quarter.
Still, shares of MGM are tumbling in after-hours trading, after the company reported preliminary third-quarter loss of 72 cents a share. MGM's results were weighed down by a $357 impairment charge related to its CityCenter investment.
Shares are tanking 5% to $12.95 in extended trading.
--Written b
Mark - that's just the land underneath the Borgata. MGM just issued this press release after the close today:
ReplyDelete"The Company recently received an offer for its 50% economic interest in the Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa ("Borgata") based on an enterprise value of $1.35 billion for the entire asset. The Company's Board of Directors has authorized submission of this offer to Boyd Gaming Corporation, which owns the other 50% interest, in accordance with the right of first refusal provisions included in the joint venture agreement. Based on Borgata's September debt balances, the offer equates to slightly in excess of $250 million for the Company's 50% interest. This is less than the carrying value of the Company's investment in Borgata; therefore, the Company will record a pre-tax impairment charge of approximately $128 million in the third quarter of 2010. The consummation of any such transaction as a result of the offer is subject to negotiation of final documents, due diligence, and regulatory approval."
October 12, 2010 16:53 ET
ReplyDelete* CEO Banga says U.S. needs 12-18 months to recover
* Asia, Latam economies dependent on U.S. recovery
* Firm is in contact with operators about mobile payments
By Maria Aspan
PURCHASE, NEW YORK, Oct 12 (Reuters) - MasterCard Inc Chief Executive Ajay Banga said on Tuesday that the U.S.
economy needs 12 to 18 months of "hard work" to recover, but he does not foresee a "double-dip" recession.
"I'm not a double-dip believer," said Banga in an interview with Reuters. Banga joined MasterCard in 2009 and became CEO
in July.
Banga also said the U.S. economic recovery will be key for sustaining growth in Latin America and Asia.
Banga, who oversaw Citigroup's Asia Pacific business before joining MasterCard, has put an emphasis on growing the
firm's business in emerging markets. His comments on Tuesday reflected his belief that Asian and Latin American
economies will be unable to grow without a recovery in the U.S.
Emerging markets, where most consumers use cash instead of plastic, are a key area of growth for MasterCard.
Banga has also had designs on increasing MasterCard's focus on innovation in emerging technologies, including mobile
payments, which allow people to pay for goods and services with their phones.
Banga said that MasterCard is talking to all major mobile phone companies about mobile payments, but he cautioned that it
would take years for mobile payments to replace cash in a meaningful fashion. (Reporting by Maria Aspan; writing by Steve
Eder, editing by Bernard Orr)
OK. Here's my refinance story, as the issue seems to be the latest headline.
ReplyDeleteI had a HELOC for 140K with Irwin Bank. The line was opened 4 years and 10 months ago. Last year, Irwin froze the loan. Zip code crap. Never late, blah, blah, blah. Balance on the loan was about 50K.
Irwin goes BK and a Co. called Greentree takes over the servicing of the loan. OK, so what?. Well, when I tried to refinance a demand letter was sent to Greentree for a payoff amount. Remember, THEY closed the Fing loan. The demand letter came back with a 4K pre-payment attached.
After a few very angry letters/call etc, here's the deal. The pre-payment penalty goes away Dec.5th. I offered 300 bucks to waive the fee. I also offered to pay off the remaining balance.
No dice. I couldn't believe it. Well, I finally talked to someone high enough up the food chain. Bottom line Greentree has no idea who/what owns the loan and can't change ANY terms. I believe them.
Fine. I paid of the loan so they wont get a penny more interest and will re-open the process in about 3 weeks.
Just imagine if I was a homeowner in trouble and was trying to work out some sort of issue. Forget about it.