Was pretty relentless down market from July 25th to August 8th ans we lost 22 SPY points in 11 days. So far, we are up 11 SPY points in 7 days in this rally (if it is a real rally), so hopefully we have a ways to go. We are at the top of the channel we've been in since August, so should Greece and friends actually be able to stay out of the news for a few days, could be some more good upside here.
Tomorrow it's JPM and GOOG. Note that after the negative headlines, AA actually performed reasonably well today. Blue chip value stocks are so inexpensive, even a severe beating barely dents prices.
I really fail to understand why developing economies are experiencing inflation (Western world consumption is down, so there should be more commodities on the market at cheaper prices) unless it's related to the monetary policies of their own governments (Buying US/European/Japanese debt) to push these currencies down (Switzerland).
"Europe Crisis Poses ‘Severe’ Risk to Asia: IMF QBy Shamim Adam - Oct 13, 2011 1:30 AM ET "
Hi Guys - just poking my head in to see what's going on.
My combo of 60% long port and 20% trading acct (20% cash too) doesn't seem to be working well. However since my current job prospects are less than zero I'm going to keep plugging away.
Hey CP - That was my plan initially but to be honest the stress of trading (without a day job) is pretty heavy, at least for me. Going to give it a bit more time but I'm starting to look much more seriously at real estate (small apt bldgs).
JB - Yeah, this weekend I found a place just a few blocks from the beach that wouldn't wipe me out(it's cheap, actually). It needs a lot of cosmetic work though, and it's rather far away so I'd have to move there for six months or so.
I don't know if I'm up to it, if having a place within walking distance of the beach is important enough to me or not.
JB - Have you considered trading longer time periods? I've found it pretty much impossible to day trade, but over longer periods of time its easier to predict moves.
Kyle - Let me guess: Grym said we've never exited a recession and that everyone near him can't find jobs so we're going down the tubes, which challenged BC's take on the markets.
The Wand....haha...I don't like bashing people too much but I used to always laugh to myself at the whole Trading Wizard thing. I guess you have to promote yourself somehow though.
So I'm still holding my short FXI position...it looks like my entry point was one day too early. I still think this tests the $30 area again.
I'm still trying to comprehend how banks can recover their real estate losses when so many can't locate employment.
How many millions of homes are in foreclosure? Do you think anyone's going to step up and start making offers on these dilapidated shacks anywhere near where they were recklessly financed at astronomical highs?
How many of those millions of shacks have a true market value 1/3 of the financed(no cash down) value?
On top of that, everybody conveniently forgets(amnesia-maximus) the conscious effort on behalf of Congress to subsidize the export of employment, where's that conversation on CC? I say it's a subject left untouched b/c of personal biases.
Trading Lizard - Anyone can copyright anything, it seems. I don't know, about the rest of everyone else but in my book, that's at least a step down from a patent pending.
"'Jobs to China' thing might correct somewhat in coming years."
I expect it will. The devil's in the detail on that one, and one can make a bundle on such trades if his timing is reasonably decent.
The prime point of my thesis involves wage discrepancies and operating costs, recently I've added the geographical advantages and so my interest in monitoring container shipping.
I expect US/European trade deficits are near peaking unless somehow the leverage monster can shift gears.
I challenge anyone to travel to nearly any foreign country and take inventory of value-added items made in US on their shelves.
Even the Japanese Fujitsu expats in Gresham Oregon used to joke they lived in importland.
I covered my FXI short at $34.03. I believe this dip was a setup for shorts to get knocked the eff down. I think we do rise to about 1,240 or so and take a big one day hit shortly thereafter, but it sure seems to me that the selloff is ovah..
Is it just me misinterpreting, or is it funny how RSI's peak just prior to bearish economic data reports?
"LONDON, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Copper prices sagged on Thursday after soft Chinese trade data reinforced a gloomy outlook for global economic growth, but signs of stronger industrial metals demand from the country helped limit losses. Benchmark copper on the London Metal Exchange was trading at $7,422 a tonne at 0916 GMT from $7,529 at the close on Wednesday when the metal used in power and construction hit a two-week high of $7,544.75 a tonne. China's trade surplus narrowed in September, as both imports and exports were lower than expected, reflecting global economic weakness and domestic cooling that will deepen policy quandaries facing Beijing. "The fact that the trade surplus is down for the second month running is raising questions about whether China can decouple from the G3 (United States, Japan and Germany)," said Robin Bhar, analyst at Credit Agricole. "That is putting pressure on commodities and copper in particular." China is the world's largest copper consumer accounting for nearly 40 percent of global demand estimated this year at around 20 million tonnes. Traders said industrial metals markets will be closely watching Chinese inflation data due on Friday for clues to the future direction of monetary policy, which has been on a tightening trajectory since last year."
"9:43 (Dow Jones) Stocks' strong run has pushed CBOE's VIX down more than 30%. VIX dipped below 30 yesterday for the first time since Aug 8 before closing down 4.9% at 31.26. What's more, implied correlation has come down from multi-decade highs and relative prices investors pay for bearish put options (skew) has lessened. But MKM Partners says the coast is far from clear. Europe and earnings still pose "outsized risk," and recommends hedging with options on SPDR S&P 500 Trust (SPY); firm recommends buying Nov $118 puts and selling Nov $113 puts in a "spread." SPY down 0.8% to 119.74. (christopher.dieterich@dowjones.com) "
I believe that Michael Darda guy helps run the show over there at that company. If so from what I remember when I watched CNBC a lot more, he was habitually wrong...to the point where I considered him a contrarian indicator.
Volume - Okay, so I'm looking at volume over the last two months, and it appears there's more volume at the bottom of the channel than at the top, whatever that means if anything, is this a sign of accumulation?
This article kinda ties into the posts you guys had about mfg in the US
CP > I've avoided trying to draw conclusions from volume...bears have been pointing to that as a reason to not believe the market rally for the past 2.5 years.
Volume - Yep, it's hard to believe that with 75% of volume being HFT, that volume would have any meaning but low volume might indicate few sellers and thus a rally once weak hands give up? Not sure but, seems bears have been on the wrong side of the trade until recently, so maybe they don't comprehend volume signals very well?
Re volume being lower - I think it is because most short term traders have realized how hard it is to do this now with the HFT and computerized trading and are taking up, if not the full buy and hold approach, at least more of a long term sswing trading approach.
I would agree with the BCG article. If you look, you can find anecdotal stories about jobs moving back to the US - a furniture company in North Carolina, a headphone manufacture in Florida, Whirlpoop reinvesting in Tennessee. You hear companies saying it is because of quality, reliability, better trained workforce, increasing costs of imports.
Minimum wage is up 40% in China this year, plus more jobs are moving towards providing services for Chinese citizens (which should happen) and away from export focus.
The big problem in the US right now is that there are not enough skilled people for the 3 million plus job openings and not enough jobs for the laid off housing laborers. This imbalance takes time to correct, but it will happen over time.
US is still the largest manufacturing economy in the world, but most of it requires higher skill levels than in the past and I don't see that changing.
Cp, it is a fact that the u s is the largest manufacturing gonna be in the world. The bulk of the u s trade deficit is related to the import of oil ande energy. On a percentage basis, I'm sure many countries are higher. For the u s has a 16 trillipn dollar economtt and manufacturing still a large part of it.
Sorry," gonna be" should be economy. Got this new android phone I can speak all of my talking text now, and wow it is generally really good it's still not perfect.
BB - I suspect your data include the US military machine?
Regardless, one might get the impression that running a multi-decade trade deficit is probably unsustainable in a longer time horizon.
I also expect most of the energy I consume(electricity), was probably sourced in the US. Aside from food, most of the finished goods I consume were sourced elsewhere.
Yep, I'm sure military is an important part of it.
From the FT:
Last year, the US created 19.9 per cent of world manufacturing output, compared with 18.6 per cent for China, with the US staying ahead despite a steep fall in factory production due to the global recession.
Last year, according to IHS, goods output by the US totalled $1,717bn, ahead of China at $1,608bn.
Running the deficit doesn't really affect the manufacturing capability of the economy. In fact, you could argue the deficit helps manufactures as it devalues the currency.
The largest cause of the deficit is oil. in 2010, over half of the total US deficit is because of oil.
The trade deficit also count products and services. Consumer products has a deficit of over $100 billion (which is what you see), but the US has a trade surplus of $150 billion in services that you don't see.
A lot o the manufactured good are high-end industrial type product like machinery as opposed to consumer products.
BB - That's interesting. I didn't believe it was that high. Is there a break-down out there? I thought the only things we made anymore were Boeing airliners, CAT machinery, ISRG surgical robots, and a few other highly specialized devices. Except for that I thought it was just BS financial products 'of mass destruction' and billions of useless e-mails, Excel spreadsheets, etc.
"you could argue the deficit helps manufactures as it devalues the currency."
So it's probably unreasonable to think the dollar should retain it's value.
"over half of the total US deficit is because of oil."
So the trade deficit would only be cut in half, and thus would remain negative, if the US were to stop importing energy entirely, or was able to go energy neutral.
"BS financial products 'of mass destruction' and billions of useless e-mails, Excel spreadsheets, etc. "
Yes, otherwise referred to by some as leverage and by others as smoke and mirrors paper shuffling. This plan works just fine until the music stops, then a multitude of problems begin to appear in a chain reaction, most of which, depending on debt levels, are currency negative.
For other countries to look the other way and continue supporting the dollar in spite, isn't in the best interest of US citizens or the global economy.
From my perspective, it wouldn't be correct to say the US manufactures nothing, but it would be correct to say the US has been running huge negative trade deficits for decades and Congressional policies have only served to accelerate the process, purposefully it appears, even through this recession. In light of this, it's amazing how little commodities inflation we've seen over the years considering the rapid pace of global growth. Gasoline prices for instance, are the one item I can identify where prices have increased most visibly, but only in the last few years rapidly, by about 35%.
Alright, so today it's more like one beer, one beer, one beer.
ReplyDeleteWas pretty relentless down market from July 25th to August 8th ans we lost 22 SPY points in 11 days. So far, we are up 11 SPY points in 7 days in this rally (if it is a real rally), so hopefully we have a ways to go. We are at the top of the channel we've been in since August, so should Greece and friends actually be able to stay out of the news for a few days, could be some more good upside here.
ReplyDeleteTomorrow it's JPM and GOOG. Note that after the negative headlines, AA actually performed reasonably well today. Blue chip value stocks are so inexpensive, even a severe beating barely dents prices.
ReplyDeleteCopper in China - Hmm, I keep reading reports of physical copper inventories in China being used as loan collateral.
ReplyDeleteI guess Beijing must be willing to buy up global copper supplies if for no other reason than to keep their collateral from losing value.
What could go wrong?
Loading up on commodities sounds like a good plan to me, sure beats loading up on overpriced US treasury paper...
I really fail to understand why developing economies are experiencing inflation (Western world consumption is down, so there should be more commodities on the market at cheaper prices) unless it's related to the monetary policies of their own governments (Buying US/European/Japanese debt) to push these currencies down (Switzerland).
ReplyDelete"Europe Crisis Poses ‘Severe’ Risk to Asia: IMF
QBy Shamim Adam - Oct 13, 2011 1:30 AM ET "
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-13/europe-crisis-poses-severe-risk-to-asia-imf.html
Hi Guys - just poking my head in to see what's going on.
ReplyDeleteMy combo of 60% long port and 20% trading acct (20% cash too) doesn't seem to be working well. However since my current job prospects are less than zero I'm going to keep plugging away.
Hope everyone is doing well!
Down elevator - 1050?
ReplyDeleteJB - I think you're going to have to trade more as opposed to buy and hold?
ReplyDeleteI almost put on a big short position yesterday @ 1220...
This wedge we're in could break out to the downside?
Hey CP - That was my plan initially but to be honest the stress of trading (without a day job) is pretty heavy, at least for me. Going to give it a bit more time but I'm starting to look much more seriously at real estate (small apt bldgs).
ReplyDeleteA 1200 short would have been a sweet trade!
Sell off is good.
ReplyDeleteSemi's nicely green off FCS?
ReplyDeleteJB - Yeah, this weekend I found a place just a few blocks from the beach that wouldn't wipe me out(it's cheap, actually). It needs a lot of cosmetic work though, and it's rather far away so I'd have to move there for six months or so.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if I'm up to it, if having a place within walking distance of the beach is important enough to me or not.
FCS - They're one of the good guys. ;)
ReplyDeleteCP- For a rental?
ReplyDeleteFast market again.
ReplyDeleteFCS - That big gap down is closed now, I see a lot of breakouts that look like they're about to fail...
ReplyDeleteWHR - Wonder if it can hold the 50SMA?
Note that both copper and gold are down, king dollar flying full mast.
Mark - Yes, that would be an option, but I'm so gun-shy of getting back into the scene.
ReplyDeleteIt's a small house, so maybe it wouldn't be too bad...
I could've bought it with my losses off the highs of this year...
Hey, I bet by the time my port reaches those highs again this house is sold.
ReplyDeleteBut I have enough cash to make a deal today.
FCS - There are tons of open gaps down, all the way from $19.
ReplyDeleteSVM - Damn, I was hoping to see sub $8...
ReplyDeleteLooks like Grym stepped into it with Bill over at CC, so I guess that's the last we'll hear from him.
ReplyDeleteJB - Have you considered trading longer time periods? I've found it pretty much impossible to day trade, but over longer periods of time its easier to predict moves.
ReplyDeleteKyle - Let me guess: Grym said we've never exited a recession and that everyone near him can't find jobs so we're going down the tubes, which challenged BC's take on the markets.
ReplyDeletetof - Yep, you nailed it and he mentioned Bill's name directly in some of his posts, so that sealed his fate...
ReplyDeleteGrym - Poor guy, conversation with Bill is most always a one-way street.
ReplyDeletecp - Yea, you disagree with the Wizard too much and you get the Wand...
ReplyDeleteThe Wand....haha...I don't like bashing people too much but I used to always laugh to myself at the whole Trading Wizard thing. I guess you have to promote yourself somehow though.
ReplyDeleteSo I'm still holding my short FXI position...it looks like my entry point was one day too early. I still think this tests the $30 area again.
I'm still trying to comprehend how banks can recover their real estate losses when so many can't locate employment.
ReplyDeleteHow many millions of homes are in foreclosure? Do you think anyone's going to step up and start making offers on these dilapidated shacks anywhere near where they were recklessly financed at astronomical highs?
How many of those millions of shacks have a true market value 1/3 of the financed(no cash down) value?
On top of that, everybody conveniently forgets(amnesia-maximus) the conscious effort on behalf of Congress to subsidize the export of employment, where's that conversation on CC? I say it's a subject left untouched b/c of personal biases.
cp - Yep, but I did notice that 'Scott' on CC posted this...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bcg.com/media/PressReleaseDetails.aspx?id=tcm:12-75973
Regarding how the 'Jobs to China' thing might correct somewhat in coming years.
Trading Lizard - Anyone can copyright anything, it seems. I don't know, about the rest of everyone else but in my book, that's at least a step down from a patent pending.
ReplyDelete"'Jobs to China' thing might correct somewhat in coming years."
ReplyDeleteI expect it will. The devil's in the detail on that one, and one can make a bundle on such trades if his timing is reasonably decent.
The prime point of my thesis involves wage discrepancies and operating costs, recently I've added the geographical advantages and so my interest in monitoring container shipping.
I expect US/European trade deficits are near peaking unless somehow the leverage monster can shift gears.
I challenge anyone to travel to nearly any foreign country and take inventory of value-added items made in US on their shelves.
Even the Japanese Fujitsu expats in Gresham Oregon used to joke they lived in importland.
NFLX - Having an outside day...
ReplyDeleteWNR - I see CC was pumping this one this morning, I guess they were selling to their readers...
ReplyDeleteWhy is inflation so high in developing countries?
ReplyDeleteCould it be because they're experiencing difficulty in weaning the US debt machine, or are they still busily milking the cow?
Why doesn't the US just end the economic warfare and monetize enough debt to return the balance back to sustainable levels?
Also, revamp the tax code, wasn't this one of the goals offered in the last presidential election?
SPX - any opinions on whether the shorts get screwdoodled this afternoon or we get a sharp sell-off instead???
ReplyDeleteI covered my FXI short at $34.03. I believe this dip was a setup for shorts to get knocked the eff down. I think we do rise to about 1,240 or so and take a big one day hit shortly thereafter, but it sure seems to me that the selloff is ovah..
ReplyDeleteIs it just me misinterpreting, or is it funny how RSI's peak just prior to bearish economic data reports?
ReplyDelete"LONDON, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Copper prices sagged on Thursday after soft Chinese trade data reinforced a gloomy outlook for global economic growth, but signs of stronger industrial metals demand from the country helped limit losses.
Benchmark copper on the London Metal Exchange was trading at $7,422 a tonne at 0916 GMT from $7,529 at the close on Wednesday when the metal used in power and construction hit a two-week high of $7,544.75 a tonne.
China's trade surplus narrowed in September, as both imports and exports were lower than expected, reflecting global economic weakness and domestic cooling that will deepen policy quandaries facing Beijing.
"The fact that the trade surplus is down for the second month running is raising questions about whether China can decouple from the G3 (United States, Japan and Germany)," said Robin Bhar, analyst at Credit Agricole. "That is putting pressure on commodities and copper in particular."
China is the world's largest copper consumer accounting for nearly 40 percent of global demand estimated this year at around 20 million tonnes.
Traders said industrial metals markets will be closely watching Chinese inflation data due on Friday for clues to the future direction of monetary policy, which has been on a tightening trajectory since last year."
http://af.reuters.com/article/metalsNews/idAFL5E7LD1P420111013
"9:43 (Dow Jones) Stocks' strong run has pushed CBOE's VIX down more than 30%. VIX dipped below 30 yesterday for the first time since Aug 8 before closing down 4.9% at 31.26. What's more, implied correlation has come down from multi-decade highs and relative prices investors pay for bearish put options (skew) has lessened. But MKM Partners says the coast is far from clear. Europe and earnings still pose "outsized risk," and recommends hedging with options on SPDR S&P 500 Trust (SPY); firm recommends buying Nov $118 puts and selling Nov $113 puts in a "spread." SPY down 0.8% to 119.74. (christopher.dieterich@dowjones.com) "
ReplyDeleteI believe that Michael Darda guy helps run the show over there at that company. If so from what I remember when I watched CNBC a lot more, he was habitually wrong...to the point where I considered him a contrarian indicator.
"SPX - any opinions on whether the shorts get screwdoodled this afternoon or we get a sharp sell-off instead???"
ReplyDeleteWell, the selling isn't accelerating and we did start the day off on the right foot yesterday...
How's the relative strength looking, I think it was spiking yesterday so we need to work some of that off?
My take is neutral to bearish at the moment, but any enthusiasm is more than welcome. ;)
Bought 40 x SPY $121 calls expiring tomorrow at $0.31. I'm bored.
ReplyDeleteMaybe since earnings reporting just started, it's just a 'freeze-frame' until something crazy happens one way or another...
ReplyDeleteVolume - Okay, so I'm looking at volume over the last two months, and it appears there's more volume at the bottom of the channel than at the top, whatever that means if anything, is this a sign of accumulation?
ReplyDeleteYep, 'freeze-frame' at top of channel as opposed to bottom...
ReplyDeleteOkay, now I'm going to jump up and down while pounding on the table, putting forth maximum display of body English, let's see if this helps at all...
ReplyDeletehttp://seekingalpha.com/article/299388-export-growth-continues-strong
ReplyDeleteThis article kinda ties into the posts you guys had about mfg in the US
CP > I've avoided trying to draw conclusions from volume...bears have been pointing to that as a reason to not believe the market rally for the past 2.5 years.
Hey guys.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, Katie Stockton things both the volume and sentiment indicate more work to do on the downside. From yday,
ReplyDeletehttp://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000050921
Volume - Yep, it's hard to believe that with 75% of volume being HFT, that volume would have any meaning but low volume might indicate few sellers and thus a rally once weak hands give up? Not sure but, seems bears have been on the wrong side of the trade until recently, so maybe they don't comprehend volume signals very well?
ReplyDeleteCould be we're just running out of sellers.
ReplyDeleteRe volume being lower - I think it is because most short term traders have realized how hard it is to do this now with the HFT and computerized trading and are taking up, if not the full buy and hold approach, at least more of a long term sswing trading approach.
ReplyDeleteSlow now. Maybe something will pop up near the close.
ReplyDeleteI would agree with the BCG article. If you look, you can find anecdotal stories about jobs moving back to the US - a furniture company in North Carolina, a headphone manufacture in Florida, Whirlpoop reinvesting in Tennessee. You hear companies saying it is because of quality, reliability, better trained workforce, increasing costs of imports.
ReplyDeleteMinimum wage is up 40% in China this year, plus more jobs are moving towards providing services for Chinese citizens (which should happen) and away from export focus.
The big problem in the US right now is that there are not enough skilled people for the 3 million plus job openings and not enough jobs for the laid off housing laborers. This imbalance takes time to correct, but it will happen over time.
US is still the largest manufacturing economy in the world, but most of it requires higher skill levels than in the past and I don't see that changing.
BB- Totally agree with your above comment.
ReplyDeleteNice day for MITK/BEXP.
ReplyDelete"US is still the largest manufacturing economy in the world"
ReplyDeleteI must be missing something, US trade deficits have been hugely negative for decades, as long as I can remember.
Cp, it is a fact that the u s is the largest manufacturing gonna be in the world. The bulk of the u s trade deficit is related to the import of oil ande energy. On a percentage basis, I'm sure many countries are higher. For the u s has a 16 trillipn dollar economtt and manufacturing still a large part of it.
ReplyDeleteSorry," gonna be" should be economy. Got this new android phone I can speak all of my talking text now, and wow it is generally really good it's still not perfect.
ReplyDeleteBB - I suspect your data include the US military machine?
ReplyDeleteRegardless, one might get the impression that running a multi-decade trade deficit is probably unsustainable in a longer time horizon.
I also expect most of the energy I consume(electricity), was probably sourced in the US. Aside from food, most of the finished goods I consume were sourced elsewhere.
Yep, I'm sure military is an important part of it.
ReplyDeleteFrom the FT:
Last year, the US created 19.9 per cent of world manufacturing output, compared with 18.6 per cent for China, with the US staying ahead despite a steep fall in factory production due to the global recession.
Last year, according to IHS, goods output by the US totalled $1,717bn, ahead of China at $1,608bn.
Running the deficit doesn't really affect the manufacturing capability of the economy. In fact, you could argue the deficit helps manufactures as it devalues the currency.
ReplyDeleteThe largest cause of the deficit is oil. in 2010, over half of the total US deficit is because of oil.
The trade deficit also count products and services. Consumer products has a deficit of over $100 billion (which is what you see), but the US has a trade surplus of $150 billion in services that you don't see.
A lot o the manufactured good are high-end industrial type product like machinery as opposed to consumer products.
BB - That's interesting. I didn't believe it was that high. Is there a break-down out there? I thought the only things we made anymore were Boeing airliners, CAT machinery, ISRG surgical robots, and a few other highly specialized devices. Except for that I thought it was just BS financial products 'of mass destruction' and billions of useless e-mails, Excel spreadsheets, etc.
ReplyDelete"you could argue the deficit helps manufactures as it devalues the currency."
ReplyDeleteSo it's probably unreasonable to think the dollar should retain it's value.
"over half of the total US deficit is because of oil."
So the trade deficit would only be cut in half, and thus would remain negative, if the US were to stop importing energy entirely, or was able to go energy neutral.
"BS financial products 'of mass destruction' and billions of useless e-mails, Excel spreadsheets, etc. "
ReplyDeleteYes, otherwise referred to by some as leverage and by others as smoke and mirrors paper shuffling. This plan works just fine until the music stops, then a multitude of problems begin to appear in a chain reaction, most of which, depending on debt levels, are currency negative.
For other countries to look the other way and continue supporting the dollar in spite, isn't in the best interest of US citizens or the global economy.
From my perspective, it wouldn't be correct to say the US manufactures nothing, but it would be correct to say the US has been running huge negative trade deficits for decades and Congressional policies have only served to accelerate the process, purposefully it appears, even through this recession. In light of this, it's amazing how little commodities inflation we've seen over the years considering the rapid pace of global growth. Gasoline prices for instance, are the one item I can identify where prices have increased most visibly, but only in the last few years rapidly, by about 35%.
Placing a buy limit order for 100 shares of TBT at $20.50 -- I am getting the feeling that we have seen THE top in Treasuries for years to come...
ReplyDeleteI've been to and worked in South Korea, and saw no Fords, Chevy's or Chryslers during my time spent there.
ReplyDeleteS&P Downgrades Spain one notch:
ReplyDeletehttp://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111013-716051.html
My guess: we gap up.
new post
ReplyDelete